# Can verbs be removed?
**URL:** https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556
**Category:** Adventure/Lucasfilm Games
**Created:** [May 16, 2017, 10:26am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556 "2017-05-16T10:26:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 7:37am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/41 "2017-05-17T07:37:28Z")
When I started this thread I meant to remove the verbs from the logic, not just hide them.
I expected the conversation to become “no, we would lose _this_ puzzle in _this_ game, and this puzzle is too good to lose” or “this puzzle could be redesigned like _this_, and we would not lose it”.
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### Author:  [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/42 "2017-05-17T10:24:44Z")
> [@seguso](#):
>
> in practice, is there a game that used a verb coin but kept the distinction between pickup, push and use (and open, if I don’t ask too much :))?
I just found a game that does exactly this:
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### Author:  [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/43 "2017-05-17T13:50:25Z")
> [@seguso](#):
>
> I just found a game that does exactly this
∗flagged for being off-topic∗
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### Author:  [@bongobrain](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/bongobrain)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/44 "2017-05-17T14:58:26Z")
> EDIT: I am interested in comments like : “no, without verbs we would lose this puzzle in this game, and this puzzle is too good to lose” or “this puzzle could be redesigned like this, and we would not lose it”.
I’ll do the opposite and say the Thimbleweed trampoline puzzle was a poor example of verb usage because it was just plain glitched on my computer. It was an absolute tossup which direction was used and had no relation to the verb.
On the other hand there are other great games that don’t use a ton of screen real estate for a bunch of unused words. So it’s a simple question to answer.
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### Author:  [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/45 "2017-05-17T15:16:32Z")
> [@bongobrain](#):
>
> I’ll do the opposite and say the Thimbleweed trampoline puzzle was a poor example of verb usage because it was just plain glitched on my computer. It was an absolute tossup which direction was used and had no relation to the verb.
We have someone who does not love verbs! Please don’t go away, I want to understand how you think 🙂
So what would you do? Remove the push trampoline puzzle from the game? Or redesign it?
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### Author:  [@N\_N](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/N_N)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/46 "2017-05-17T15:19:52Z")
The remastered version of DotT actually enhances the original artistic vision. The remakes of the MI games do not achieve this IMO, and the Full Throttle remake is ghastly in many ways…
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### Author:  [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/47 "2017-05-17T16:06:23Z")
> [@bongobrain](#):
>
> I’ll do the opposite and say the Thimbleweed trampoline puzzle was a poor example of verb usage because it was just plain glitched on my computer. It was an absolute tossup which direction was used and had no relation to the verb.
If still confused: I’ve tried to explain it in this topic:
> [@The Trampoline puzzle](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/the-trampoline-puzzle/449/4):
>
> If you select Push and click the left side of the trampoline it moves right, if you select Pull and click the left side it moves left. When clicking on the right side moving left/right this is reversed. The confusion happens because there aren’t two separate push and pull animations, so the character always pushes, but it’s always the correct direction depending on verb + click area. Other possible implementations of this puzzle could have worked like this: Only one trampoline hotspot; Push …
> [@N\_N](#):
>
> The remastered version of DotT actually enhances the original artistic vision.
When talking about animations and characters: Yes. But I’m not really happy with the backgrounds, basically they have just used a filter to upscale them and fixed some stuff here and there (e.g. making circle shapes).
For instance take a look at the edges of the washing machine (especially the hinges) or the cupboard to the left:
Back to the topic: I liked that they have made the verbs context sensitive, e.g. removing verbs which only produced generic responses. But what was really horrible was that the verbs change their positions ☹
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### Author:  [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/48 "2017-05-17T16:44:54Z")
> [@Nor\_Treblig](#):
>
> I liked that they have made the verbs context sensitive,
Wait… they did? I am not ok with this 🙂
If you only see “push” where it makes sense, the puzzle is immediately spoiled 🙂
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### Author:  [@N\_N](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/N_N)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/49 "2017-05-17T17:06:18Z")
I agree that it wasn’t perfectly executed but it still fundamentally improves on the artistic vision because a purer cartoon style is far more idiomatic. It’ s like using “real” pixel art: TWP has a concretely and cogently formed artistic vision which is highly idiomatic of pixel art (crafted and sculpted from near enough the ground up in a pixel way), whereas Kathy Rain forces more realistic landscapes into pixel art through crude transformations as though they are applying a pixel filter (I’m speaking intuitively here so the technical jargon might be off). In essence, that’s what DotT and Sam & Max did to cartoon concepts.
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### Author:  [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/50 "2017-05-17T17:21:22Z")
> [@seguso](#):
>
> > [@Nor\_Treblig](#):
> >
> > I liked that they have made the verbs context sensitive,
>
> Wait… they did? I am not ok with this 🙂
>
> If you only see “push” where it makes sense, the puzzle is immediately spoiled 🙂
If there isn’t a special _Pull_ response the verb won’t be shown. You have posted the screenshot yourself:
> [@Can verbs be removed?](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/42):
>
> I just found a game that does exactly this: [image]
The verb wheel (theoretically) shows up to 9 verbs (that’s what the original version had) but hides those which doesn’t fulfil any purpose.
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### Author:  [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/51 "2017-05-17T17:23:15Z")
> [@Nor\_Treblig](#):
>
> If there isn’t a special Pull response the verb won’t be shown. You have posted the screenshot yourself:
I had stopped playing after that screenshot 🙂
So the only reason why “push” is visible, is that the bell can be pushed? Oh God.
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### Author:  [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/52 "2017-05-17T17:27:20Z")
Yes, the remasters work well with cartoon graphics like DOTT and Sam&Max. But if fails with “realistic” graphics like MI2 or Full Throttle. You can either invent a new style like they did with MI1:SE and MI2:SE. Or try to add more detail like in Full Throttle. But this doesn’t work so well IMHO, it made it very cartoonish since a lot more realistic detail would be needed to match the original pixel-art.
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### Author:  [@LowLevel](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LowLevel)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/53 "2017-05-17T18:14:31Z")
> [@Nor\_Treblig](#):
>
> basically they have just used a filter to upscale them
Are you sure about this? I’m pretty confident that they used the old backgrounds just as guides but they drew the new backgrounds manually. I think I read an official statement about this somewhere.
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### Author:  [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/54 "2017-05-17T18:44:54Z")
> [@LowLevel](#):
>
> Are you sure about this? I’m pretty confident that they used the old backgrounds just as guides but they drew the new backgrounds manually. I think I read an official statement about this somewhere.
Here is a “making of” video for DOTT:
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjF4eMrYfG0)
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### Author:  [@LowLevel](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LowLevel)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/55 "2017-05-17T18:54:03Z")
> [@Someone](#):
>
> Here is a “making of” video for DOTT:
Thanks, I remember watching this video when it was released. They say that animations were re-painted (“just re-paint every frame”) but I don’t remember they were talking about the technique used to draw the backgrounds.
Could you point out a time in the video in which they say that they have just used a filter to upscale them? I can’t find this information in this video.
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### Author:  [@rodrifra](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/rodrifra)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/56 "2017-05-17T20:28:08Z")
Well I think they did a great job, I love the way they just enhanced the graphics keeping the original art and I think the UI is pretty nice.
I’m happy I bought the remastered edition because this is exactly what I would have wanted to have back then.
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### Author:  [@rodrifra](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/rodrifra)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/57 "2017-05-17T20:34:10Z")
Well I don’t think so.
AFAIK you can’t do anything with the poster in the attached image, but as you can see you can pull, push, use, grab, look and none of those get any result.
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### Author:  [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/58 "2017-05-17T20:58:07Z")
> [@LowLevel](#):
>
> Could you point out a time in the video in which they say that they have just used a filter to upscale them?
No, but maybe @Nor_Treblig can give some more informations about that?
This video compares the old Full Throttle with the remake:
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y24bQnlOwI)
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### Author:  [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/59 "2017-05-17T21:32:59Z")
> [@rodrifra](#):
>
> AFAIK you can’t do anything with the poster in the attached image, but as you can see you can pull, push, use, grab, look and none of those get any result.
It’s still a special reaction: If you try to touch the poster Edna says “Don’t even think about it.”
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### Author:  [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/60 "2017-05-17T21:37:27Z")
> [@Someone](#):
>
> > [@LowLevel](#):
> >
> > Could you point out a time in the video in which they say that they have just used a filter to upscale them?
>
> No, but maybe @Nor_Treblig can give some more informations about that?
I don’t have any official quotes at hand but just looking at those DOTT:R backgrounds makes it IMO relatively clear they’ve used the original images, upscaled them using some filter like hqx and then touched them up manually to add more details (e.g. text) and fixed geometry (circles, arcs).
Just look at the screenshot I’ve posted and compare e.g. the hinges with the original background.
Btw. those apparent inaccuracies in the backgrounds is more or less the only thing I don’t like about DOTT:R’s new style (not including the new UI which I don’t like due its usability problems).
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