# Can verbs be removed?
**URL:** https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556
**Category:** Adventure/Lucasfilm Games
**Created:** [May 16, 2017, 10:26am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556 "2017-05-16T10:26:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)
#### Post date: [June 3, 2017, 7:44am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/81 "2017-06-03T07:44:25Z")
> [@seguso](#):
>
> Fuzziness IS important. I don’t know why, but it is. Probably it hides the lack of detail to the brain. (Maybe if you are myopic your eyes do the filter automatically, and you don’t need it.)
Myopic? How far away is your screen?
But I think we can all agree since you prefer it blurry that you are just plain crazy. 😛
---
### Author:  [@Ema](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Ema)
#### Post date: [June 3, 2017, 8:03am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/82 "2017-06-03T08:03:33Z")
Nooo, I have tried all those filters with great expectation when ScummVM came out. Nothing. They give me headache, I don’t like them. I feel like I forgot my glasses.
I like crispy images. Lo-res or hi-res
---
### Author:  [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)
#### Post date: [June 3, 2017, 8:05am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/83 "2017-06-03T08:05:46Z")
> [@Ema](#):
>
> . I feel like I forgot my glasses.
You see? You wear glasses. I suspect if your sight isn’t perfect you are better off with no filter.
I think this is a case where there is no sensible default…
---
### Author:  [@Ema](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Ema)
#### Post date: [June 3, 2017, 9:00am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/84 "2017-06-03T09:00:50Z")
Maybe your theory isn’t wrong… when I was about 8 I realized I needed some lens. I distinctly remember when I got my new glasses and tried them to watch TV for the first time. Man, what a difference! The world looked so crisp! From that moment on, I started to give much importance to the quality and crispness of my view. Everytime I used to go to the movies or whtever, I took the habit of washing my glasses with dish detergent to have them as clean as possible. So adding a filter which mimics a slight impairment in view isn’t a good idea to me.
---
### Author:  [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/85 "2017-06-04T04:43:26Z")
> [@LowLevel](#):
>
> I did again some of the test done in the past to show you how different is the result of one of these filters compared to what they did in DOTT remastered.
You are right, it’s unlikely they used such or similar filter, but instead drew their own shapes over the original art.
But at least in this one sample they made a non-optimal job since part of it **looks like** they have used one of those filters.
E.g. those hinges on the washing machine and around the coin slot always looked like quadrangles to me, and not malformed things I see here:
[ ](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/thimbleweedpark/original/1X/91320715f0f4334fcd306338b01f4f8522f7a05e.png)
---
### Author:  [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/86 "2017-06-10T12:44:28Z")
For reference: I finally remembered what game had context-sensitive, popup verbs: it’s Cruise for a Corpse:
---
### Author:  [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/87 "2017-06-10T13:59:46Z")
> [@seguso](#):
>
> For reference: I finally remembered what game had context-sensitive, popup verbs: it’s Cruise for a Corpse:
But IMO it’s also an example of how the interface spoils the solution of puzzles: If a special verb pops up, you know you have to use it… 🙂
---
### Author:  [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/88 "2017-06-10T14:05:31Z")
> [@Someone](#):
>
> But IMO it’s also an example of how the interface spoils the solution of puzzles: If a special verb pops up, you know you have to use it…
Not necessarily. If you have a verb that would be a spoiler, you can still show “use with”:
this of course can only be done with verbs that involve two objects. for verbs that involve one object (like “look through”), to avoid spoilers they use multitude, as I suggested. For example:
i.e. the puzzle is to understand _which_ porthole you have to look through, and at what time.
PS: This game IS FANTASTIC. It makes me wonder why all other games did not copy the UI.
---
### Author:  [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/89 "2017-06-10T14:09:54Z")
> [@seguso](#):
>
> i.e. the puzzle is to understand which porthole you have to look through, and at what time.
But due to the verb “look though” you _know_ that you have to look through one of the portholes. 🙂 That’s one part of the solution. 🙂
> [@seguso](#):
>
> PS: This game IS FANTASTIC.
Yes, I liked it too. 🙂 The only think i didn’t liked was the “time”. To get all clues you had to be at a certain point at a certain time. (Like in “The Last Express”).
btw: The (smooth) graphics were amazing at that time.
---
### Author:  [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/90 "2017-06-10T14:13:11Z")
> [@Someone](#):
>
> But due to the verb “look though” you know that you have to look through one of the portholes
sorry but… not quite. If you see “look through”, you don’t know if it’s needed or if it’s there just for realism: there are lots of verbs that are not needed:
Why do you think nobody copied this UI? I don’t understand it.
---
### Author:  [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/91 "2017-06-10T14:19:37Z")
> [@Someone](#):
>
> To get all clues you had to be at a certain point at a certain time
ok but do you need all the clues? in other words, do you know if you can get stuck in this game?
---
### Author:  [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/92 "2017-06-10T14:22:06Z")
> [@seguso](#):
>
> If you see “look through”, you don’t know if it’s needed or if it’s there just for realism:
Yes, in that situation with the cork you are right. (But as a player i would try all of the verbs anyway :)). But the porthole is obvious in this game: You have to investigate a murder and it’s likely that one has to look through holes to know what’s going on… 🙂
> [@seguso](#):
>
> Why do you think nobody copied this UI? I don’t understand it.
I really don’t know. i have to admit that I like the UI of “Cruise for a Corpse”. It’s a mixture of the coin and the verb interface. But there are several other adventures that had a similar UI. For example Larry 7, Lure of the Temptress, Future Wars and Operation Stealth if I remember correctly…
---
### Author:  [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/93 "2017-06-10T18:27:18Z")
> [@Someone](#):
>
> But due to the verb “look though” you know that you have to look through one of the portholes. 🙂 That’s one part of the solution. 🙂
It’s a very typical use for a window-like object which makes it IMO perfectly fine. And you can also have a lot of these type of objects. Spoilery would be something like this on special objects or very unusual verbs.
I think I have to try this game!
---
### Author:  [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/94 "2017-06-10T18:33:15Z")
> [@Nor\_Treblig](#):
>
> I think I have to try this game!
You must!
I am replaying it. And I am stuck where I was stuck 26 years ago!
This time I have to make it.
---
### Author:  [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/95 "2017-06-10T21:59:40Z")
> [@Nor\_Treblig](#):
>
> I think I have to try this game!
Yes, do it! 🙂
The story remembers of a “Sherlock Holmes” or a “Agatha Christie” book. And the timed events are similar to “The Last Express”. If you like these kind of stories, you have to play it. 🙂
---
### Author:  [@ZakPhoenixMcKracken](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/ZakPhoenixMcKracken)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/96 "2017-06-11T04:51:00Z")
> [@Someone](#):
>
> The story remembers of a “Sherlock Holmes” or a “Agatha Christie” book. And the timed events are similar to “The Last Express”. If you like these kind of stories, you have to play it
Yes, absolutely! Cruise for a corpse was an interesting adventure game, more thrilling and stick to a Columbo episode. You had mostly to use your logic and deduction skills, more than solving puzzles. While playing, your mind tries to guess who is the culprit. And at the end … you gather all the suspects and point out who is the killer!
---
### Author:  [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/97 "2017-06-12T18:49:48Z")
I’ve been playing Cruise for a Corpse… the UI is great, but it has problems in the gameplay. And I don’t know how they could be solved. Does someone feel like discussing it? 🙂
First of all, there are no dead ends in this game. The problem is another.
Basically, once you solve a puzzle (which most often consists in talking to someone about something), you don’t directly see progress related to what you just did. What you see is that _time advances._ And when time advances, this means that some situation has changed on some other part of the ship. The situation could be that some people appeared in some location that was previously empty. So, each time time advances, you need to revisit all the locations, in the hope to find something new. This is frustrating. Especially because it is not enough to _visit_ all the locations: you also need to retry many actions that previously failed, in the hope that this time they will succeed. For example, knocking all doors. Retrying to open all doors that were previously locked. Even “look through porthole”! This action had failed 50 times, but if you do it at (say) 11:55 o clock, on one specific porthole, it will suddenly succeed, and you will see two people talking. But you had absolutely no reason to believe that this time this would have succeeded (and on that specific porthole). (unless I missed it)
How do you think these problems could be solved?
---
### Author:  [@Sushi](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Sushi)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/98 "2017-06-12T19:06:47Z")
> [@seguso](#):
>
> If Ron does it, he must have found a way to make it work.
>
> I’m pissing my pants to know what he has in mind.
Two words:
The Cave
(Okay, that’s four words technically speaking)
---
### Author:  [@Sushi](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Sushi)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/99 "2017-06-12T19:39:59Z")
> [@seguso](#):
>
> I am interested in comments like : “no, without verbs we would lose this puzzle in this game, and this puzzle is too good to lose” or “this puzzle could be redesigned like this, and we would not lose it”.
Some jokes in Zak would not work without verbs (and on-screen verbs no less):
Chew, chew, chew, chew, poop
Losing and regaining the verbs when you have been locked up and released from the mindbending machine
Puzzle-wise: all the ghost-like verbs in Thimbleweed park when playing Franklin. That was a real nice way to make you **think** about how you can creatively solve a seemingly simple puzzle with a different set of verbs. The verbs are really an integral part of the puzzle there.
---
### Author:  [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2017, 1:03am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556/100 "2017-06-13T01:03:14Z")
> [@seguso](#):
>
> What you see is that _time_ advances. And when time advances, this means that some situation has changed on some other part of the ship. The situation could be that some people appeared in some location that was previously empty. So, each time time advances, you need to revisit all the locations, in the hope to find something new. This is frustrating.
There should be hints pointing to those events or changes, e.g.
- You’ve overheard two people talking about meeting somewhere at something o’clock (so then you can spy on them).
- Or you find a scheduler with an appointment.
- Or on a cruise ship you may have an overall schedule of fun time activities and you should check them out when they happen or e.g. the bar opens…
- Or you could have visual cues, like a door that was left ajar, or there is smoke coming from some place.
- Or you or the character notices that the engines have stopped, so maybe you should check out the bridge, engine room or find the captain.
- Or you could have cutscenes introducing changes/events
The possibilities are endless. But not hinting anything quite sucks. I wouldn’t recommend casual players playing Discworld 1 without walkthrough for instance as it has a similar problem.
[Previous page](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556.md?page=4)
[Next page](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/can-verbs-be-removed/556.md?page=6)