# How much game development cost....now and before **URL:** \ **Category:** Development/Design\ **Created:** [June 1, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679 "2017-06-01T17:17:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/23 "2017-06-02T14:41:21Z")
> [@RonGilbert](#): > > If you’re a C++ programmer working on engine code, it can be $75K-$100K depending on experience. If you’re a rock-star engine programmer and doing hardcore AI or rendering, it can be up to $150K/year. :reyes: I got the wrong job. Where do I have to sign to earn that? (If I’m lucky I’m earning $35K/year …) ---
**Author:** ![yrface](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/yrface/32/11793_2.png) [@yrface](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/yrface)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/24 "2017-06-02T18:16:33Z")
:delores: “First you have to be someone.” :ransome: “Ugh… _beeping_ nerds with their _beeping_ puns!” ---
**Author:** ![asterothe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/asterothe/32/550_2.png) [@asterothe](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/asterothe)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/25 "2017-06-02T20:03:22Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > I got the wrong job. Where do I have to sign to earn that? (If I’m lucky I’m earning $35K/year …) In CA this is not that much though. You can go hardcore and start with some college courses or just online tutorials and a lot of reading. ---
**Author:** ![kaiman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a698b9/32.png) [@kaiman](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/kaiman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/26 "2017-06-02T20:12:30Z")
From your link > “European programmers made $47,312, compared > to $43,914 in the prior year.” Seems there’s quite a big difference between here and the US (and it’s pretty much the same in other software engineering fields, as far as I can tell). Of course, you’d also have to take cost of living and social security into account, which may even out things a bit. Still good to see that at least some people somewhere in the games industry get paid decently. But in my corner of the world, I’m better off writing boring software for industrial manufacturing and machinery 👷. ---
**Author:** ![milanfahrnholz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@milanfahrnholz](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/milanfahrnholz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/27 "2017-06-02T20:43:23Z")
> [@kaiman](#): > > you’d also have to take cost of living and social security into account And in the US you´re pretty much on your own as far as healthcare goes (especially when you´re selfemployed). I´ve actually seen people doing online fundraisers for basic dental jobs. It´s insane. ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/28 "2017-06-02T22:08:46Z")
> [@asterothe](#): > > In CA this is not that much though. You can go hardcore and start with some college courses or just online tutorials and a lot of reading. I went to a university and have a master degree. I speak also fluent C/C++, I am familiar with engine code and AI programming. So where can I get that money? ---
**Author:** ![Stefano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Stefano](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Stefano)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/29 "2017-06-02T22:15:13Z")
Where do you live? Those salaries are for US locations I assume, where cost of living is fairly high on average. Enterprise software engineers in the Bay Area make between 150K (average engineers) and 400K (top engineers at Google, FB, Amazon, etc). ---
**Author:** ![Stefano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Stefano](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Stefano)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/30 "2017-06-02T22:18:05Z")
There are few gaming hub locations in the US. San Francisco/Bay Area, Austin, Seattle, San Diego, Santa Monica/Los Angeles. ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/31 "2017-06-02T22:20:08Z")
> [@Stefano](#): > > Where do you live? Germany. > [@Stefano](#): > > … between 150K (average engineers) and 400K … :reyes: Sorry, I just felt of my chair. 400K? Per year? But I can’t imagine that game companies are paying 150K?!? All game developers I know are happy if they get 30K … ---
**Author:** ![Stefano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Stefano](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Stefano)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/32 "2017-06-02T22:20:37Z")
Yes, being self employed in the US is pretty tough. If you’re employed by a large employer, health care is (mostly) taken care of. ---
**Author:** ![Stefano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Stefano](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Stefano)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/33 "2017-06-02T22:25:07Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > Germany. You could try Cloud Imperium games, then. They have offices in Germany (and in London). Also CD Projekt Red (Witcher 3) is in Europe. > [@Someone](#): > > Sorry, I just felt of my chair. 400K? Per year? Enterprise software engineers receive a lot of stocks, and if you are a rock star (working for a top company) is not unheard to make 200/250K base salary and another 150K (at least) in stock (called RSU - Restriced Stock Units). > [@Someone](#): > > But I can’t imagine that game companies are paying 150K?!? All game developers I know are happy if they get 30K … I am no expert in gaming company salaries, but I guess it all depends on how the expectations are for a certain game. ---
**Author:** ![LowLevel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/lowlevel/32/48_2.png) [@LowLevel](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LowLevel)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/34 "2017-06-02T22:37:36Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > Sorry, I just felt of my chair. 400K? Per year? Yes, but I would like to emphasize what Stefano said: this is not the _average_ salary of a software engineer in Silicon Valley / Bay Area but the salary of a **top** engineer in big companies. The national (US) average salary for a software engineer is about 100K (probably a little less) and the average/median salary greatly changes depending on the specific city. In cities where life is more expensive and house/rent prices have skyrocketed, salaries tend to be higher, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/35 "2017-06-02T22:37:50Z")
> [@Stefano](#): > > Yes, being self employed in the US is pretty tough. If you’re employed by a large employer, health care is (mostly) taken care of. I’m working as a freelancer and I can say that at least in germany you have to care yourself about the whole insurance stuff. But if you’re employed you don’t have to worry about health care, that’s true. 🙂 > [@Stefano](#): > > You could try Cloud Imperium games, then. They have offices in Germany (and in London). Also CD Projekt Red (Witcher 3) is in Europe. Yes, but I don’t think that they will pay the 150K here in germany. Do you have a source for the payments of these companies? > [@Stefano](#): > > I am no expert in gaming company salaries, but I guess it all depends on how the expectations are for a certain game. I know that a lot of game developers are working (at least here in germany) for a minimum income (below 30K). And they are doing _a lot_ of extra hours for free (the company just don’t pay the extra hours). ---
**Author:** ![Stefano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Stefano](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Stefano)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/36 "2017-06-02T22:40:41Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > Yes, but I don’t think that they will pay the 150K here in germany. Do you have a source for the payments of these companies? Did you try Glassdoor? It’s an app where you can search companies and salaries ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/37 "2017-06-02T22:40:44Z")
> [@LowLevel](#): > > The national (US) average salary for a software engineer is about 100K (probably a little less) and the average/median salary greatly changes depending on the specific city. In cities where life is more expensive and house/rent prices have skyrocketed, salaries tend to be higher, of course. Well the salaries are higher in big german cities too. But 100K _is_ high. That’s round about three times of my income (and I’m a freelancer, so I get a little bit more then employees). ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/38 "2017-06-02T22:41:40Z")
> [@Stefano](#): > > Did you try Glassdoor? It’s an app where you can search companies and salaries Cool, thanks! I will try that tomorrow (It’s after midnight in germany. ;)) ---
**Author:** ![Stefano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Stefano](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Stefano)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/39 "2017-06-02T22:43:50Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > Well the salaries are higher in big german cities too. But 100K is high. That’s round about three times more then I get (and I’m a freelancer, so I get a little bit more then employees). That’s why I moved over here (Bay Area) from Italy in 2008. My current salary is 7x of my last salary in Italy, after 6 years experience in software consulting… ---
**Author:** ![ZakPhoenixMcKracken](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/zakphoenixmckracken/32/41_2.png) [@ZakPhoenixMcKracken](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/ZakPhoenixMcKracken)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 5:57am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/40 "2017-06-03T05:57:04Z")
> [@Stefano](#): > > My current salary is 7x of my last salary in Italy, after 6 years experience in software consulting… Yeah, software consulting is a very different branch compared to developing games. I work as employee in a company who makes financial software, salary is 30K, all paid (in Italy you pay most of the taxes each month, subtracting them from the gross salary). I don’t complain, I’m working in the same company since the year MI2 came out, and I’m happy for the location, co-workers and the boss himself. Friends who worked for software consulting in Milan, changed employer every 4/5 years, hoping for a better salary, but AFAIK they can’t find a satisfactory company. ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/41 "2017-06-03T12:44:58Z")
He, he. Ron should produce new games in Europe - that seems to be cheaper. 😉 But I don’t really get why big companies like EA won’t produce the games in Europe. They would have lower costs… ---
**Author:** ![kaiman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a698b9/32.png) [@kaiman](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/kaiman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679/42 "2017-06-04T14:31:35Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > But I don’t really get why big companies like EA won’t produce the games in Europe. They would have lower costs… But they do: [Careers at Electronic Arts - Start your Job Search - Official EA Site](http://careers.ea.com/our-locations) I guess one thing that we’re lacking here are big, pure software companies. SAP is the only big that comes to mind. The rest is either small, or software is just a (small) part of the product, and not valued as high as it should be, given that most things turn into doorstoppers without software. [Previous page](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/how-much-game-development-cost-now-and-before/679.md?page=3)