# Piracy avoidance **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Created:** [June 29, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910 "2017-06-29T16:53:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![katox](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/katox/32/861_2.png) [@katox](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/katox)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/101 "2017-09-20T10:36:22Z")
Vengeance. I wonder how many people actually bought the game and didn’t just put down as a piece of crap. ---
**Author:** ![DZ-Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@DZ-Jay](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/DZ-Jay)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 10:47am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/102 "2017-09-20T10:47:41Z")
> [@katox](#): > > Vengeance. I wonder how many people actually bought the game and didn’t just put down as a piece of crap. I wonder how many buying customers got affected by the unintended consequences of adding “special case” code that adds no value to them but still requires extensive integration and play testing effort. ---
**Author:** ![Aractus](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/aractus/32/13579_2.png) [@Aractus](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Aractus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 7:35am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/103 "2017-09-21T07:35:55Z")
That’s the problem with DRM - it needs to be pretty darn invasive to be effective. ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/104 "2017-09-21T16:52:29Z")
The German site [Netzpolitik.org](http://Netzpolitik.org) has reported about a research study by the EU about the impact of piracy on the sales of music, movies and games. Surprising conclusion: Piracy doesn’t affect game sales. It’s the opposite: The sales increase. > Cite: “In general, the results do not show robust statistical evidence of displacement of sales by online copyright infringements.” Note that this is only valid for the markets in Germany, France, Poland, Spain, Sweden and the UK. Unfortunately I only know the [German article](https://netzpolitik.org/2017/eu-kommission-versteckte-unbequeme-piraterie-studie-zwei-jahre-vor-der-oeffentlichkeit/), but maybe someone can provide a link to an English site? ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/105 "2017-09-21T16:59:01Z")
For a second I read “[Nazipolitik.org](http://Nazipolitik.org)” 🙂 this is interesting. I can’t imagine how they can estimate how many people would have bought a game (or record) in the absence of piracy. Just asking them of course won’t work 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LowLevel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/lowlevel/32/48_2.png) [@LowLevel](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LowLevel)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/106 "2017-09-21T17:03:12Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > Surprising conclusion: Piracy doesn’t affect game sales. This is not the conclusion. This one is: > In general, the results do not show robust statistical evidence of displacement of sales by online copyright infringements. That does not necessarily mean that piracy has no effect but only that the statistical analysis does not prove with sufficient reliability that there is an effect. An exception is the displacement of recent top films. The results show a displacement rate of 40 per cent which means that for every ten recent top films watched illegally, four fewer films are consumed legally. [Full paper (PDF) with more context](https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf). A popular aphorism among statisticians and scientists is: “[Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence)” ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/107 "2017-09-21T17:22:55Z")
> [@LowLevel](#): > > This is not the conclusion No. That is the conclusion for films, not for games. These are different. Cite: "For games, the estimated effect of illegal online transactions on sales is positive – implying that illegal consumption leads to increased legal consumption. " ---
**Author:** ![LogicDeLuxe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/logicdeluxe/32/15335_2.png) [@LogicDeLuxe](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LogicDeLuxe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/108 "2017-09-22T09:37:44Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > No. That is the conclusion for films, not for games. These are different. I assume, by “recent top films” they mean in cinema. That wouldn’t surprise me. If you add the overpriced beverages (which usually are more expansive than in a pub or restaurant) to it, you would pay more than for a DVD or Blu-Ray 6 month later. Many people are not willing to pay that much. If we would have the same distribution model for games, ie. let them only officially available in the arcades for the first 6 month, they would be probably pirated as much as movies. There is a reason the arcades virtually died out long time ago (apart from fruit machines and pool tables that is). Cinemas will suffer the same fate eventually, I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 9:41am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/109 "2017-09-22T09:41:10Z")
> [@LogicDeLuxe](#): > > If we would have the same distribution model for games, ie. let them only officially available in the arcades for the first 6 month, they would be probably pirated as much as movies. I think that the future is “game streaming”, where the game runs in the cloud - at least for AAA titles. ---
**Author:** ![Nor\_Treblig](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/nor_treblig/32/216_2.png) [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/110 "2017-09-22T13:49:54Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > I think that the future is “game streaming" Imagine S/someone wants to play such game in ten years, it’s a sad future (and something I won’t support) ☹ There are (and were!) already such games out there. Unless the resources from the original game server will be leaked they will only further exist in our imagination and YouTube videos. * * * It’s a shame so less people are interested in preservation of games. The movie industry is doing a great job in this regard (frankly it’s much easier to do). ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/111 "2017-09-22T13:57:03Z")
> [@Nor\_Treblig](#): > > Imagine S/someone wants to play such game in ten years As long as people are willing to pay for a game, that should be available, shouldn’t it? For the same reason why we can still buy Casablanca. To be honest I don’t completely understand such worries. ---
**Author:** ![Nor\_Treblig](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/nor_treblig/32/216_2.png) [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/112 "2017-09-22T14:00:01Z")
> [@seguso](#): > > As long as people are willing to pay for a game People have payed for the game. And game servers were shutdown. Their game copy is now trash. ---
**Author:** ![milanfahrnholz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@milanfahrnholz](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/milanfahrnholz)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/113 "2017-09-22T14:02:05Z")
> [@seguso](#): > > As long as people are willing to pay for a game If there is not enough people to support it, they will shut down. And I pity the 1 person who is unable to play later on. ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/114 "2017-09-22T14:10:31Z")
I pity the guy too 🙂 Life can be tough. But… (I know I am going to regret saying this:) )… sentiments aside, if the game servers were shutdown, what does it mean? It means that people were not willing to pay the cost of keeping them alive. This means that, for people, that game costs more than it’s worth. Society is better off if that game does not exist. You never think in these terms? ---
**Author:** ![milanfahrnholz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@milanfahrnholz](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/milanfahrnholz)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/115 "2017-09-22T14:11:25Z")
> [@seguso](#): > > Society is better off if that game does not exist. You never think in these terms? Hell no!!! ---
**Author:** ![Nor\_Treblig](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/nor_treblig/32/216_2.png) [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/116 "2017-09-22T14:21:04Z")
Hell no!! People (consumers) have payed for a game and some of them still want to play the game. But they are not the deciders. The companies decide to shutdown servers when they don’t want to pay for them anymore, e.g. when there aren’t too many **new** sales. Existing customers can _beep off_ (of course ultimately it’s their fault buying an online-only game). Here are some examples I’ve found via Ross Scott ([Accursed Farms](http://www.accursedfarms.com/)) who is against such practices too: - [Darkspore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkspore#Online) - [BattleForge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BattleForge) Another reason to shutdown servers is because there is a newer version available (e.g. FIFA #### multiplayer servers). ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/117 "2017-09-22T14:23:11Z")
> [@Nor\_Treblig](#): > > Imagine S/someone wants to play such game in ten years, it’s a sad future (and something I won’t support) Yep. I don’t like these streaming things either. But the developers and especially publisher like it: No piracy anymore, reduced costs in distribution and especially support and more and predictable revenues. > [@seguso](#): > > As long as people are willing to pay for a game, that should be available, shouldn’t it? Imagine what happend if that model was available back in the 90s: Monkey Island hadn’t sold well, so LA would have shut down the servers. As a consequence we wouldn’t be able to play Monkey Island today. It happened, by the way, already in the past: Several MMOPRGs were shutdown so that you can’t play them anymore. And there is another “problem”: The publishers are selling monthly subscriptions. So if you aren’t able to pay the fees, you are not able to (re-)play these games anymore. ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/118 "2017-09-22T14:27:09Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > Monkey Island hadn’t sold well, so LA would have shut down the servers. As a consequence we wouldn’t be able to play Monkey Island today. Why? The moment there’s demand, LA would bring it back online. (It’s not that it destroyed the sources.) I think we would just have kickstarters to bring an old game back online. ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/119 "2017-09-22T14:35:44Z")
> [@seguso](#): > > Why? The moment there’s demand, LA would bring it back online. Why should they? 1. Monkey Island wasn’t successful, so it’s unlikely that this changes 30 years later. 2. The server code would be outdated after 30 years. So they have to invest (a lot of) money to rewrite or convert the code. 3. How do they know that there is demand? 4. There is simply not enough demand to set up a server for the EGA version of Monkey Island or the C64 version of Maniac Mansion. Only a few enthusiasts are interested in these versions. And even the remastered versions of DOTT sold not that well to keep the servers running over month. > [@seguso](#): > > (It’s not that it destroyed the sources.) Do you know that for sure? > [@seguso](#): > > I think we would just have kickstarters to bring an old game back online. To run a server you have monthly costs. So you have to constantly doing Kickstarters to keep these servers alive. ---
**Author:** ![Nor\_Treblig](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/nor_treblig/32/216_2.png) [@Nor\_Treblig](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Nor_Treblig)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910/120 "2017-09-22T14:37:44Z")
Monkey Island is one of the most beloved adventure games out there and still I’m not sure if it would have been easy to do something like that unless you have such fans working at those companies (e.g. resulting in MI1:SE). Talking about companies: Many (including LA) **DO NOT EXIST** anymore! What about any other (smaller, less known) game? They would have been gone forever. [Previous page](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/piracy-avoidance/910.md?page=7)