# Ron declares he is working on a new Monkey Island **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Created:** [April 3, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993 "2022-04-03T20:18:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 129
**Author:** ![bongobrain](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/bongobrain/32/13926_2.png) [@bongobrain](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/bongobrain)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2579 "2022-08-29T20:36:00Z")
> [@LowLevel](#): > > Does that think actually exist? Dunno but this does (Light L16) ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/thimbleweedpark/original/2X/5/54e9ae9edb1afcb47580d66f2cbebb44018bcc99.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![LowLevel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/lowlevel/32/48_2.png) [@LowLevel](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LowLevel)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2580 "2022-08-29T20:38:10Z")
What’s that? The offspring of Sauron and HAL 9000? ---
**Author:** ![BaronGrackle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/848f3c/32.png) [@BaronGrackle](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/BaronGrackle)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2581 "2022-08-29T20:57:55Z")
> [@LowLevel](#): > > I see one: “Puzzle over the arm bone.” Even if phrased differently, it’s the classic “examine” command. Right, and… I still haven’t figured out the pattern? 🤪 On Level A: The feature of Guybrush’s thoughts seems to only be in the footage from last week?? Like… this week, hovering over a skull was “Remove skull”. Under last week’s interface, it might’ve said something like, “This skull needs to be somewhere else…” On Level B: We see the “Look At” possibility for the bone (and probably all inventory items), and last week it was possibly a “Look At” for the Scumm Bar sign. But it appears the majority of objects don’t have the option. Which is fine… but is it true? Heh. ---
**Author:** ![LowLevel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/lowlevel/32/48_2.png) [@LowLevel](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LowLevel)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2582 "2022-08-29T21:11:44Z")
> [@BaronGrackle](#): > > this week, hovering over a skull was “Remove skull”. Under last week’s interface, it might’ve said something like, “This skull needs to be somewhere else…” I think that “Remove skull” (to put it in the inventory) shouldn’t be written as a hint, because it’s just the “Take” verb in disguise. ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2583 "2022-08-29T21:13:33Z")
But it’s true that with this UI we’d lose some nice puzzles like “pickup dog” or “pickup shovel (from the sign)”. With Delores, Ron said that with this UI puzzles would become more conceptual. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![LowLevel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/lowlevel/32/48_2.png) [@LowLevel](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LowLevel)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2584 "2022-08-29T21:14:29Z")
> [@seguso](#): > > more conceptual What does it mean? Did he make an example? ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2585 "2022-08-29T21:16:05Z")
he didn’t make an example, but Delores had just been released, so we understood what he meant. In that game, you need to take a picture of something because , with some lateral thinking, it could be interpreted as something else you were looking for. ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2586 "2022-08-29T21:17:56Z")
PS: I believe he said this in a TWP podcast. Was a podcast episode released for Delores? ---
**Author:** ![LowLevel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/lowlevel/32/48_2.png) [@LowLevel](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LowLevel)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2587 "2022-08-29T21:19:44Z")
But is the game mechanic used in Delores (practically based only on a play on words) the same that you have observed in RtMI clips? ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2588 "2022-08-29T21:20:43Z")
No… in fact , I was skeptical that this approach could be transported outside Delores… ---
**Author:** ![BaronGrackle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/848f3c/32.png) [@BaronGrackle](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/BaronGrackle)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2589 "2022-08-29T21:20:46Z")
I see a bag of money. I wonder if Ron has adopted the generic bag of money system seen in Curse, or if that inventory item says 167 Pieces of Eight. ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2590 "2022-08-29T21:48:18Z")
> [@seguso](#): > > … does not appear when hovering the skull, but only when dragging something onto it. So it’s not a spoiler. It is, because it makes it easier to try everything with everything. You don’t even have to click if you would like to know if you could use the bone with the skull - and in which way! > [@seguso](#): > > which makes it easier than clicking “pickup” from the 9 verbs Again: I wouldn’t use the verb interface. > [@LogicDeLuxe](#): > > And thinking about it, puzzles are not just using some verbs, they can also consist of dialog trees, inventory combinations, and sometimes even certain moves. But you are limited to such puzzles. With a more “complex” interface you could vary more. > [@seguso](#): > > Another way is to rely on timing. Things that have to be done at the right time. I’d like that 🙂 Can you give an example? The “quick time events” from the Telltale Games were criticized. And the time events in the Sierra games were unfair. I remember only a handful of (good) time related puzzles… 🤔 > [@LowLevel](#): > > Like this? To be serious: Similar. A lot of gaming mice have more than three buttons, for example on their side. The Razer DeathAdder V3 Pro has five for example. ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 9:54pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2591 "2022-08-29T21:54:59Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > Can you give an example? > > The “quick time events” from the Telltale Games were criticized. And the time events in the Sierra games were unfair. I remember only a handful of (good) time related puzzles… I could make quite a few examples. I believe those are the best puzzles. In Indy4, often you have to put a character in the correct mood, maybe by choosing the correct dialog option, and _then_ do something. I believe you need to do something like that with Trottier in Indy4. A second example is characters that have a schedule; they move, they do several things in a sequence, and you have to hijack their schedule by doing somethng at the right time. One example is pushing sophia when she is considering whether to be the assistant of the knife thrower. There are also several puzzles like that in Beneath a Steel Sky and in Lure of the Temptress. And then there are pure timing puzzles, such as spitting when the wind blows, or catching the monocle at the right time. These are also nice. The “follow” puzzle in MI1 also falls in that category. The grog mug puzzle too. The lechuck-elevator-beard puzzle. the lechuck-pants puzzle. > [@Someone](#): > > It is, because it makes it easier to try everything with everything. True, this UI is more cheater-friendly… ---
**Author:** ![BaronGrackle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/848f3c/32.png) [@BaronGrackle](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/BaronGrackle)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 11:06pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2592 "2022-08-29T23:06:20Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > It is, because it makes it easier to try everything with everything. You don’t even have to click if you would like to know if you could use the bone with the skull - and in which way! Eh. When I visualize this, you still need to open your inventory, click your item, drag your item to the object, and then click to cancel. (Even though I’m not entirely sure how click to cancel happens, if one mouse button is “use item with object” while the other mouse button is “interact with the object normally”…) But regardless… the click to cancel (if it exists) means this won’t save you any time or clicks if you’re trying to inventory-strongarm a problem. EDIT: The part about “in which way” has never been a factor in LucasArts inventory puzzles. You use a flower with meat, or a lens with the sun, or a saw with a peg leg, or a monkey with a valve - all without specifying which way to use it. Now, the things that really help when strongarming, are the items that can’t interact with anything else! The T-shirts from MI1 and Pirate Hat from MI2, stuff like that. EXCEPT when they change their minds… like the Compass that can suddenly be used with other objects, but only in LeChuck’s cabin! 😠 ---
**Author:** ![Guga](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/guga/32/14476_2.png) [@Guga](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Guga)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 5:26am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2593 "2022-08-30T05:26:11Z")
> [@seguso](#): > > The “follow” puzzle in MI1 also falls in that category. > > The grog mug puzzle too. > > The lechuck-elevator-beard puzzle. the lechuck-pants puzzle. I knew we were going in that direction. I’m with @seguso on this one, single click doesn’t necessarily mean easier. You just have to design puzzles where the goal isn’t “what verb shall I use”, but… well, everything else. Let’s start with inventory objects. Most of the puzzles in adventure games have always been “use X with Y”, or maybe “give X to Y”, because verbs like open, pull and push aren’t binary, you never had “pull X with Y”, just “pull X”. So, single click makes no difference at all. Now, we want something like “there’s something hidden behind a poster and you find out only when you use pull instead of pick up”? Well, apart from the fact that this is poor design, you can have the same effect with a justified different reaction depending on time or position - you have the action “pull poster” that works properly only if you stand on the right spot, or if you click on the right corner, or at the right time. ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 6:51am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2594 "2022-08-30T06:51:29Z")
> [@Guga](#): > > Well, apart from the fact that this is poor design, you can have the same effect with a justified different reaction depending on time or position - you have the action “pull poster” that works properly only if you stand on the right spot, or if you click on the right corner, or at the right time. The positional approach is also interesting. It is used mostly to hide behind things. Also, blowing the horn while in the right location is an example of that. ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:25am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2595 "2022-08-30T09:25:50Z")
> [@BaronGrackle](#): > > Eh. When I visualize this, you still need to open your inventory, click your item, … Yes, of course. But it’s quicker than with the verb interface - depending on the implementation. And (that’s what I’m trying to say) you don’t have to think about the solution: Just drag and drop each of your objects onto a object in the scene and you instantly know if you could combine them and (in RtMI) _how_ and maybe _why_. That was what I didn’t liked in “Broken Age”: Some of the puzzles were very simple or I had only some few combinations left (so I just don’t had to think but just to use each object with the others to progress). It played more like an interactive movie. I never had the feeling that I solved a puzzle myself. > [@BaronGrackle](#): > > You use a flower with meat, or a lens with the sun, or a saw with a peg leg, or a monkey with a valve - all without specifying which way to use it. No. For example in Maniac Mansion you have to open the toolbox first or to repair things. Another difference to the old games is, that you have to think about which object you would combine with which other object. You can’t just drag them (that easily) onto another object and see. > [@Guga](#): > > I’m with @seguso on this one, single click doesn’t necessarily mean easier. Of course. But the player and the designer are more limited. > [@Guga](#): > > So, single click makes no difference at all. Technically. But not in my head during solving a puzzle. For example It’s a difference if I pull or push a table. Or if I _use_ the paint remover with Dave or if I _give_ the paint remover to him or if I _throw_ the paint remover at him. How would you model that with a one-click-interface? > [@Guga](#): > > … you have the action “pull poster” that works properly only if you stand on the right spot, or if you click on the right corner, or at the right time. Beside the poor design 😉 this would be more frustrating than the “pull” version: If you allow only “pull” the player would say “ah, ok. to pull the poster is logical in some way”. But the one-click-solution is just frustrating because the player will not get why he has to stand on _that_ spot or why he could “use” the poster only at the right time. You have to find very good reasons to motivate these situations. btw: We had a discussion during the development of TWP where the majority disliked the one-click- and coin-interfaces. Now it seems to be the opposite. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LowLevel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/lowlevel/32/48_2.png) [@LowLevel](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LowLevel)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2596 "2022-08-30T09:37:13Z")
Kids will bruteforce their way through the story, dragging-and-dropping as hell on the touch screen. Speedrun records will be set in the same way. ---
**Author:** ![BaronGrackle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/848f3c/32.png) [@BaronGrackle](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/BaronGrackle)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:43am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2597 "2022-08-30T09:43:20Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > No. For example in Maniac Mansion you have to open the toolbox first or to repair things. Another difference to the old games is, that you have to think about which object you would combine with which other object. You can’t just drag them (that easily) onto another object and see. I don’t think you had to open the toolbox before you used it? You had to make sure it was Bernard or Jeff to use toolbox with phone, and upstairs you had to have the power off and the flashlight on with the good battery before you could use toolbox with exposed wires. You did have things like needing to Open Cereal Box (MI1) or Bite Bottle (MI3, where using your mouth on the bottle tells you the verb will be Bite). That is affected by Verb reduction, but it’s not so much related to using items with other items. In MI1, you can either Use Meat with or Give Meat to Piranha Poodles. They both work. But in many examples, thecgame wouldn’t let you use Give and Use on the same object… it was that weirdness where some people could only be interacted with via Talk or Give. And by MI3 and its verb coin? MI3 and its verb coin was already at this point. You’d hover your Wet Towel over the Cabana Boy, and the game would automatically tell you that the verb was goingcto be Use (or Slap, I honestly don’t remember what the exact word was!) instead of Give Wet Towel to Cabana Boy. ---
**Author:** ![ZakPhoenixMcKracken](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/zakphoenixmckracken/32/41_2.png) [@ZakPhoenixMcKracken](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/ZakPhoenixMcKracken)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:43am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2598 "2022-08-30T09:43:23Z")
> [@LowLevel](#): > > Kids will bruteforce their way through the story, dragging-and-dropping as hell on the touch screen. It’s the same, old thing, since the 1990, in your head, in your head… try everything with everything! [Previous page](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993.md?page=128) [Next page](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993.md?page=130)