# Ron declares he is working on a new Monkey Island **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Created:** [April 3, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993 "2022-04-03T20:18:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 130
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2599 "2022-08-30T09:47:13Z")
> [@BaronGrackle](#): > > I don’t think you had to open the toolbox before you used it? Oh, then I have mixed that up with another adventure game. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![BaronGrackle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/848f3c/32.png) [@BaronGrackle](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/BaronGrackle)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2600 "2022-08-30T09:56:22Z")
I DO think the reduction of verbs is a game changer, though I think that started with earlier games. A lot if times I was “stuck” was related to not thinking of a different verb… Open Cereal in MI1, Push Speaker in Day of the Tentacle, and Bite Bottle in MI3 were all things that stumped me. And I remember feeling cheated out of a puzzle in MI2, with LeChuck’s Fortress, the door with all the locks in it. I noticed immediately that the “recommended verb” for right-clicking was Look At instead of Open. That was weird and different! So yeah, sure enough, the puzzle solution was to Open the Door. That puzzle would have benefitted from the game not having right-click recommended verbs. ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:06am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2601 "2022-08-30T10:06:32Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > Yes, of course. But it’s quicker than with the verb interface - depending on the implementation. And (that’s what I’m trying to say) you don’t have to think about the solution: Just drag and drop each of your objects onto a object in the scene and you instantly know if you could combine them and (in RtMI) _how_ and maybe _why_. I think you might be right for subtle reasons related to how the mind works. For example, I have a hunch the skull might be useful here. But I haven’t _really_ solved the puzzle. I only made a crude association in my mind, like “peg leg is made of wood + saw cuts wood =\> use saw on peg leg”. So I drag the skull around and I learn it can be combined with this object. Accidental puzzle solving. Note I’m not talking about cheating, here. ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2602 "2022-08-30T10:09:35Z")
> [@BaronGrackle](#): > > I DO think the reduction of verbs is a game changer, And don’t forget that the verb interface is less intuitive. Especially for casual gamer. > [@BaronGrackle](#): > > though I think that started with earlier games. Actually the verb interface was already a simplification of the parser in text adventures and the Sierra games. ---
**Author:** ![LowLevel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/lowlevel/32/48_2.png) [@LowLevel](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LowLevel)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:11am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2603 "2022-08-30T10:11:02Z")
Have you noticed that a big red ❌ appears when the cursor is dragging an item over a non-interactive zone of the scene? Well, from the video clip it’s not completely clear to me if the ❌ appears also when the cursor is over non-puzzle-related interactive hotspots. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:12am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2604 "2022-08-30T10:12:00Z")
> [@LowLevel](#): > > Well, from the video clip it’s not completely clear to me if the ❌ appears also when the cursor is over non-puzzle-related interactive hotspots We know that from Delores… X will appear anytime you are dragging the skull on any _unhandled_ object. (= any object for which a custom response has not been written) I mean when there’s an unhandled _combination_. ---
**Author:** ![LowLevel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/lowlevel/32/48_2.png) [@LowLevel](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LowLevel)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2605 "2022-08-30T10:15:45Z")
I didn’t remember that. Does that mean that I can just drag the object around and release it as soon as I don’t see the X, hoping that it did something meaningful? ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2606 "2022-08-30T10:15:48Z")
So, in theory, a workaround would be to handle a lot of combinations … A lot of custom text for senseless combinations. ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:16am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2607 "2022-08-30T10:16:44Z")
> [@LowLevel](#): > > Does that mean that I can just drag the object around and release it as soon as I don’t see the X, hoping that it did something meaningful? Exactly. Unless the writers handled a lot of senseless combinations (e.g. use skull on tree, use skull on vine). Unlikely. _But_ they could do this in just that critical location… ---
**Author:** ![LowLevel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/lowlevel/32/48_2.png) [@LowLevel](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LowLevel)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:17am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2608 "2022-08-30T10:17:19Z")
Wow. _Casual_ indeed… ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2609 "2022-08-30T10:18:19Z")
Not very obviously casual. Because you could argue that if you drag the object around you are cheating, and you are free to do so anyway. ( I for one won’t do it) And then we need to get into psychology to respond. ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:28am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2610 "2022-08-30T10:28:56Z")
In some sense, the problem is the UI makes it much easier to cheat, and does not communicate to the user they are cheating. There is no clear separation between cheating and playing normally. I recently played Great Ace Attorney and they punish the player for wrong combinations. You can only miss 5 times. Then you need to restore a savegame. That would solve it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2611 "2022-08-30T10:31:57Z")
> [@seguso](#): > > I recently played Great Ace Attorney and they punish the player for wrong combinations. You can only miss 5 times. Then you need to restore a savegame. That would solve it 🙂 But isn’t that a little bit frustrating too? ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:32am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2612 "2022-08-30T10:32:45Z")
No, it’s wonderful. It does something subconsciously to you, that keeps the tension high. ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2613 "2022-08-30T10:39:03Z")
But aside from cheating, there is the other problem: the case where I have a hunch that these two objects could be related, because they more or less seem to make sense together. So I combine them to see if I’m right. There, I am not cheating. I combine them _without knowing there is something else to understand, that I failed to understand._ (example: I don’t understand _why_ I am sawing off the peg leg). ---
**Author:** ![Paul](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/paul/32/15080_2.png) [@Paul](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Paul)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2614 "2022-08-30T11:07:57Z")
> [@seguso](#): > > > [@Someone](#): > > > > It is, because it makes it easier to try everything with everything. > > True, this UI is more cheater-friendly… Trying everything with everything isn’t cheating, it’s a time-honoured tradition passed down from adventurer to adventurer and used by those with the steeliest of determination. ---
**Author:** ![Someone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Someone](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Someone)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 11:08am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2615 "2022-08-30T11:08:07Z")
> [@seguso](#): > > I have a hunch that these two objects could be related, because they more or less seem to make sense together. So I combine them to see if I’m right. There, I am not cheating. It depends on your definition of “cheating”. 😉 Some games refuse to combine two objects if you couldn’t know why to combine them. For example if you haven’t spoken to the guy with the bike you can’t combine the pot with the rope (to build a helmet). Generally speaking the game should give you all information that you need to solve a puzzle. ---
**Author:** ![Frenzie](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/frenzie/32/4416_2.png) [@Frenzie](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Frenzie)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2616 "2022-08-30T11:19:57Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > But isn’t that a little bit frustrating too? Only when you’ve already solved it but you have to hold the game’s hand to tell it that you know. ---
**Author:** ![BaronGrackle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/848f3c/32.png) [@BaronGrackle](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/BaronGrackle)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 11:27am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2617 "2022-08-30T11:27:55Z")
Yeah, I’m not sure what the definition of cheating is here. In the heady days, when we were playing MI2 Part 2 across three islands with several screens of inventory? I guarantee that if I was stuck, it means I had already tried combining every inventory item with every other inventory item, and I had moved on to trying probable inventory items with everything I came across. That’s why I don’t fully understand how so many non-American gamers consider the monkey wrench puzzle so unfair. I mean… you just added a monkey to your inventory. You’re not trying to use that monkey on every object that looks like it needs an inventory item? I might’ve thought to use the monkey on the pump because maybe the monkey would operate a machine, even! I can’t really criticize, because my big stumper was Use Saw on Peg Leg. But I solved it the same way a lot of foreigners probably solved Jojo: “This is my most probable inventory item, and I unleash it upon the known world!” EDIT: And if it required us to load a saved game after we failed 5 times? We would save before starting the attempts! 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![GuybrushTransmasc](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/guybrushtransmasc/32/14191_2.png) [@GuybrushTransmasc](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/GuybrushTransmasc)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/2618 "2022-08-30T11:55:58Z")
> [@seguso](#): > > I recently played Great Ace Attorney and they punish the player for wrong combinations. You can only miss 5 times. Then you need to restore a savegame. That would solve it No it doesn’t. The Great Ace Attorney gives you an option to retry when you lose, which resets you directly before the problem where you failed and with full health. The original Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney game had that “five strikes and its game over” system. And it wasn’t really great. For the reasons other people have stated. AA is a series where losing isn’t compelling, and the series has struggled with how to treat player failure. I don’t even think TGAA’s method is great, but I prefer it over savescum strats. Wow, they really are adventure games, aren’t they? [Previous page](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993.md?page=129) [Next page](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993.md?page=131)