# Ron declares he is working on a new Monkey Island **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Created:** [April 3, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993 "2022-04-03T20:18:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![St\_Eddie](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/st_eddie/32/13650_2.png) [@St\_Eddie](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/St_Eddie)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/383 "2022-04-18T16:55:39Z")
> [@LowLevel](#): > > But we don’t have any data about how many people haven’t expressed _any_ opinion at all. We have a fantastic metric for the general reaction to the art style, given the numerous comments made by countless fans reacting to the screenshots thus far. One can extrapolate the general consensus to a reasonable degree, from the tens of thousands of viewpoints expressed by the pool of fans who have already reacted. It takes some serious mental gymnastics to believe that, by and large, only the fans with reservations towards the art style are making comments at the moment and that there a millions of silent fans out there who love the art style direction that’s been chosen for the game. It’s not as though the fans wanted to dislike the art style. It’s not like they want the game to fail. It’s just fans reacting to and discussing what little there is to see of the game at this early stage and the majority opinion at this early stage is one of reservations towards the art style. Now, I personally suspect that the art style will grow on people, given time (much like it did for _The Curse of Monkey Island_ and _The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker_) but that’s a separate issue of debate. The simple fact is, that at this early stage, the critical response to the art style is being made by the majority, not the “vocal minority”. ---
**Author:** ![a.ammo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/a.ammo/32/263_2.png) [@a.ammo](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/a.ammo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/384 "2022-04-18T17:03:50Z")
A lot of the time you have to consider that the people who are most invested in a particular niche also have the strongest opinions about what they (and I mean themselves _specifically_) want. The people who participate in focused adventure game groups, who participate on Twitter discussions about video games where they pick apart what they’ve seen in a few still images, etc etc can be helpful in certain ways but in others you have to take them with a grain of salt. I’m not saying this is necessarily true of this circumstance. Maybe 90% of the game playing world just cannot stand these graphics and you’re right. But an overwhelming reaction by online communities is in many circumstances not the viewpoint of the world at large. ---
**Author:** ![Paul](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/paul/32/15080_2.png) [@Paul](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Paul)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/385 "2022-04-18T17:09:22Z")
> [@St\_Eddie](#): > > The simple fact is, that at this early stage, the critical response to the art style is being made by the majority, not the “vocal minority”. We know that the super hardcore MI fans mostly don’t like the art, that is true, but there aren’t really enough of them to make a game a success, there’s only a few thousand at the very most. The silent majority in this case are not MI fans who are not saying anything, it is the wider audience who don’t have any attachment to any particular art style for MI. ---
**Author:** ![St\_Eddie](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/st_eddie/32/13650_2.png) [@St\_Eddie](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/St_Eddie)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/386 "2022-04-18T17:14:09Z")
> [@a.ammo](#): > > The people who participate in focused adventure game groups, who participate on Twitter discussions about video games where they pick apart what they’ve seen in a few still images, etc etc can be helpful in certain ways but in others you have to take them with a grain of salt. > > I’m not saying this is necessarily true of this circumstance. Maybe 90% of the game playing world just cannot stand these graphics and you’re right. But an overwhelming reaction by online communities is in many circumstances not the viewpoint of the world at large. Yes, this is true in general but adventure games ARE a niche in of themselves. 90% of the people making comments about the game’s art style and picking apart the screenshots and discussing theories about _Return to Monkey Island_ are likely 90% of the people who will buy the game itself. Monkey Island isn’t a AAA franchise. Despite being arguably the most famous and renowned adventure game series of all time, Monkey Island really isn’t as famous or well known amongst gamers as a lot of adventure enthusiasts tend to think that it is. There’s not tens of millions of gamers out there who will be buying this game but have yet to react to its announcement and screenshots. The reactions made thus far by the fanbase are the reactions of the very people who will be purchasing the game. ---
**Author:** ![joemonsters](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/joemonsters/32/14118_2.png) [@joemonsters](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/joemonsters)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/387 "2022-04-18T17:19:21Z")
I’ve seen a lot of polls, and people seem to mostly like the art. The polls I’ve seen are from Twitter and a couple of FB groups. Is is it a solid proof that the people who don’t like the art are a vocal minority? No. But I don’t think we can conclude either that fans are split. I’ve seen a lot of angry comments coming from the same ten people. So I don’t think most people hate the art style. Personally, I think that a lot of people, me included, are really into it, some people don’t like it at all but are waiting to see more and a couple people are being agressive and hateful, they’re basically just trolls who don’t know how to handle their emotions – and they’re coming from both sides. So basically… I don’t know. I think it’s difficult to judge this kind of things on the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![a.ammo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/a.ammo/32/263_2.png) [@a.ammo](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/a.ammo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/388 "2022-04-18T17:23:42Z")
While I do think there is a lot of truth in your last post St\_Eddie, I do think you’re overestimating how many of the remaining adventure game players are posting their opinions online. I backed Thimbleweed Park based on a trailer. I post on this forum frequently. I’ve not even posted my opinion on the look of the game. A lot of people aren’t posting about it at all and rarely post about anything. ---
**Author:** ![St\_Eddie](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/st_eddie/32/13650_2.png) [@St\_Eddie](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/St_Eddie)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/389 "2022-04-18T17:24:30Z")
> [@joemonsters](#): > > I’ve seen a lot of polls, and people seem to mostly like the art. > The polls I’ve seen are from Twitter and a couple of FB groups. > Is is it a solid proof that the people who don’t like the art are a vocal minority? No. > But I don’t think we can conclude either that fans are split. > I’ve seen a lot of angry comments coming from the same ten people. > So I don’t think most people hate the art style. > Personally, I think that a lot of people, me included, are really into it, some people don’t like but are waiting to see more and a couple people are being agressive and hateful, they’re basically just trolls who don’t know how to handle their emotions – and they’re coming from both sides. > So basically… I don’t know. > I think it’s difficult to judge this kind of things, mostly on the Internet. I’m certainly willing to concede that it’s possible that there’s a pretty much evenly split 50/50 opinion about the art style (it’s not what I’ve witnessed but I will concede that it is possible). My sole point here has been that the reservations towards the art style absolutely have not been from a “vocal minority” and if the online reaction has indeed been pretty evenly split, then that doesn’t make the critical folk a minority. Quite frankly, it’s irksome and mildly offensive to see people attempt to discredit and dismiss valid opinions and criticism by boxing people into a descriptor that’s not even statistically true. ---
**Author:** ![Frenzie](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/frenzie/32/4416_2.png) [@Frenzie](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Frenzie)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/390 "2022-04-18T17:28:07Z")
I think it looks great. ---
**Author:** ![St\_Eddie](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/st_eddie/32/13650_2.png) [@St\_Eddie](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/St_Eddie)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/391 "2022-04-18T17:28:24Z")
Now, having said all of that; I am beyond hyped for this game and just because I’m not 100% sold on the art style, that doesn’t mean that I’m not championing this game and that I am not more excited to play this game than I perhaps have been for any other game from my 39 years upon this Earth. I think some people lose sight of the fact that just because a person is critical of a certain aspect of a game, it doesn’t mean that they’re not a passionate fan or that they are rallying against the game and wanting it to fail. ---
**Author:** ![Paul](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/paul/32/15080_2.png) [@Paul](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Paul)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/392 "2022-04-18T17:29:11Z")
> [@St\_Eddie](#): > > I pretty much guarantee you that the majority of people who would care to play a Monkey Island game have already expressed their thoughts about the announcement of _Return to Monkey Island_ and indeed the screenshots. Several years back (Jul '18) there was a big leak of Steam sales figures - [TWP # players on steam revealed](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/twp-players-on-steam-revealed/2891) Monkey Island 2 Special Edition: LeChuck’s Revenge: 288,297 Grim Fandango Remastered: 516,584 Day of the Tentacle Remastered: 265,169 Thimbleweed Park: 98,491 I’ve seen a few hundred comments on Ron’s blog, and a few more on facebook, etc… That means there’s over 200,000 people or more who are either casual fans, or just general gamers who we don’t know the opinions of. ---
**Author:** ![St\_Eddie](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/st_eddie/32/13650_2.png) [@St\_Eddie](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/St_Eddie)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/393 "2022-04-18T17:31:13Z")
> [@Paul](#): > > Several years back (Jul '18) there was a big leak of Steam sales figures - [TWP # players on steam revealed](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/twp-players-on-steam-revealed/2891) > > Monkey Island 2 Special Edition: LeChuck’s Revenge: 288,297 > Grim Fandango Remastered: 516,584 > Day of the Tentacle Remastered: 265,169 > Thimbleweed Park: 98,491 > > I’ve seen a few hundred comments on Ron’s blog, and a few more on facebook, etc… > > That means there’s over 200,000 people or more who are either casual fans, or just general gamers who we don’t know the opinions of. You see, for me, that really just backs up what I said, rather than disproves it. I see your point about how not everyone has commentated upon the game at this point but hopefully others can see my point about how immensely niche the adventure game genre is within gaming and how the comments made about the art style thus far are a fairly decent indicator for what the larger opinion would be. ---
**Author:** ![joemonsters](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/joemonsters/32/14118_2.png) [@joemonsters](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/joemonsters)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/394 "2022-04-18T17:31:27Z")
And I never meant to discredit your opinion. I perfectly understand you, and other people, not liking the art style. I just meant that, besides the polls I talked about, we don’t have much statistics. So it’s difficult to know exactly what most people think. Based on the polls I’ve seen, it seems like the majority like the art. But the polls are coming from specific groups, so it might not be representative of what everybody thinks. ---
**Author:** ![Paul](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/paul/32/15080_2.png) [@Paul](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Paul)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/395 "2022-04-18T17:50:33Z")
> [@St\_Eddie](#): > > how the comments made about the art style thus far are a fairly decent indicator for what the larger opinion would be. It’s not a decent indicator, because we only know the opinions of one segment of the market - very passionate MI fans around the age of 40. We know a bunch of them don’t like the art style. This is several hundred people based on comments. We don’t know who makes up the other 200,000+ players, a lot will be casual fans, kids, etc. ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/396 "2022-04-18T17:59:30Z")
Another line of reasoning: This is going to be a hardcore game. (To use Ron’s words: “It would be an adventure game for the hardcore. _You’re going to get stuck. You’re going to be frustrated_. Some puzzles will be hard”. It’s unlikely Ron changed his mind on that part.) If it’s a game for hardcore players, _does it make sense to try to give it an art style that’s more mainstream_? This seems like a big risk to me. You risk losing your old audience and failing to gain a new audience… (those who like the art won’t like the gameplay, and viceversa) ---
**Author:** ![St\_Eddie](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/st_eddie/32/13650_2.png) [@St\_Eddie](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/St_Eddie)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/397 "2022-04-18T18:12:44Z")
> [@seguso](#): > > If it’s a game for hardcore players, _does it make sense to try to give it an art style that’s more mainstream_ ? This seems like a big risk to me. You risk losing your old audience and failing to gain a new audience… Good question. I think if Ron Gilbert is hoping to attract a lot of causal and younger gamers with this game, then he’s likely to be disappointed. Having said that, I don’t think that Ron was attempting to appeal to a mainstream audience when he settled upon the chosen art style. I simply think that he loves that style of art. After all, this was the piece of art which turned Ron onto choosing Rex Crowle as the lead artist for the game in the first place… ![](https://i.imgur.com/v8QBxAq.jpg) Ron said that he loved that take on Guybrush. Personally, I think that it looks absolutely hideous but that’s the subjective nature of art for you, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![seguso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/seguso/32/1232_2.png) [@seguso](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/seguso)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/398 "2022-04-18T18:20:04Z")
> [@St\_Eddie](#): > > I simply think that he loves that style of art. I agree… that’s the most likely explanation for taking such a risk. Ron probably just really loves that style. (Another piece of evidence is that it’s similar to Deathspank) ---
**Author:** ![LowLevel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/lowlevel/32/48_2.png) [@LowLevel](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/LowLevel)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/399 "2022-04-18T18:25:14Z")
Adventure game players are already a small niche and I don’t think that Ron has an economical interest in shrinking the game audience even more, focusing only or mainly on hardcore players. Actually, I think that some hints (starting with the art style) point to the opposite direction: widening the audience beyond the usual old-school niche. > Evolving things, evolving the franchise, **embracing new audiences** —all these things, those are the big questions that we needed to ask ourselves. [Emphasis is mine. [Source](https://adventuregamers.com/articles/view/ron-gilbert-dave-grossman-return-to-monkey-island)] ---
**Author:** ![St\_Eddie](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/st_eddie/32/13650_2.png) [@St\_Eddie](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/St_Eddie)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/400 "2022-04-18T18:26:42Z")
> [@seguso](#): > > (Another piece of evidence is that it’s similar to Deathspank) Yes, I noticed that too. Particularly in regards to the portrait in the courthouse screenshot… ![](https://i.imgur.com/pXD4cH4.jpg) > [@LowLevel](#): > > Actually, I think that some hints (starting with the art style) point to the opposite direction: widening the audience beyond the usual old-school niche. > > > Evolving things, evolving the franchise, **embracing new audiences** —all these things, those are the big questions that we needed to ask ourselves. [Emphasis is mine. [Source](https://adventuregamers.com/articles/view/ron-gilbert-dave-grossman-return-to-monkey-island)] That being the case, I think it’s a folly to design a new Monkey Island game around a wont to attract a larger audience. Adventure games are just too niche of a genre. I don’t think one can appeal to a more mainstream audience by evoking a certain art style or streamlining the gameplay mechanics. Minecraft is a massively popular game with younger audiences, but it’s not like TellTale Games’ _Minecraft: Story Mode_ appealed to the majority of those players, much less did gangbusters in terms of sales. _Return to Monkey Island_ isn’t going to attract the same crowd who regularly play titles such as _GTA V_ or _Fortnite_. I’m sorry, but it’s just not. I think the best thing to do is to embrace the niche nature of the genre and its fanbase. ---
**Author:** ![a.ammo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/a.ammo/32/263_2.png) [@a.ammo](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/a.ammo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/401 "2022-04-18T18:27:44Z")
As chance would have it, aside from Thimbleweed Park I have only played three ‘new’ games for more than five minutes in the past 12 years. 1. one of the Mario Kart games (at a friend’s) 2. Limbo 3. **LittleBigPlanet** , which RTMI’s art director worked on (because it was a free game option when the PS Network went down and even though I only used the PS3 as my blu ray player, I figured why not?) ---
**Author:** ![Ema](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forums.thimbleweedpark.com/ema/32/14101_2.png) [@Ema](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/u/Ema)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993/402 "2022-04-18T18:31:46Z")
I think that one of the points that make people enraging -consciously or less- is the fact they take the art chosen for RMI as a declaration, a mission statement. And therefore a betrayal. “who’s the commercial target of this game? We, the hardcore ones? Or the digital native casual gamers?” I would have preferred a different art style, but I think I’ll like the game immensely as well. But you’ll have to admit the question is legit. [Previous page](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993.md?page=19) [Next page](https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/ron-declares-he-is-working-on-a-new-monkey-island/4993.md?page=21)