How many verbs are perfect?

Specific reasons regarding Axiom Verge? Well, regarding one specific DRM-free shop I’ve actually just found something, there were some misunderstandings etc.:

Maybe we will get a GOG release at last.

Oh, a physical copy of Axiom Verge with pixel-art on the box sounds nice! (at first, but e.g. if it’s just a DVD with Steam key it defeats the purpose of a physical release for me unless it’s full of extras)

From the post you linked:

In terms of if or when Axiom Verge will ever come to GOG, we’re going to need to look into it. We have nothing against the platform and nothing against releasing a DRM-free version. It really comes down to the work required to bring it to the system and integrate it with Galaxy. I’m just the business half of the Axiom Verge team, and Tom Happ (the guy who made Axiom Verge entirely by himself) is the only one available to do the integration. We need to think about all the other things Tom could be doing - including working on his next game and taking care of his son - and decide how best to use his time. If I could wave a magic wand and have it out on GOG with Galaxy integration, we’d have done it already.

Sounds like I was right:

I think it was for a console version.

grafik

grafik

Furthermore in Maniac Mansion there was the “Fix” verb. At the end, it was an unused verb: Bernard used the Use verb to fix what he needed to fix.

@different platforms
Developing a game is more interesting than supporting different platforms but it’s part of the job (unless you outsource it) and it helps to increase sales. Offering a version for good selection of platforms (DRM free, Steam) is a good thing.

F.e. Gorogoa was available for iTunes(iOS), Steam(Win), GOG(Win), the AppStore(macOS) and Switch.

You don’t want to buy games for the AppStore because a) sometimes games (which still work) dissapear without a refund, b) the games are more expensive and there are less sales and c) you want to use a low number of stores you already like&use.

So, for Gorogoa macOS support is missing for at least Steam and GOG.

Some people prefer the Humble Store because they often offer both a DRM free and a Steam key (which btw. you don’t misuse but value as a backup if there show up problems on other platforms [low bandwith, errors with the specific build …]) or as a collection for a majority of the games. itch.io is a nice DRM free platform due to the games they offer and their flexible pricing (min+x).

You also could avoid DLCs (where it makes more sense), keep the versions number low and offer an additional option on the platforms which allows you to add money for the games, you would like to support beyond buying the initial price (this would allow a finer balancing than rebuying games from). A complete version still feels cleaner.

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I’m still deciding what to vote for. In theory I think fewer verbs is better, but as for which ones and how many, that takes a bit of thought.

One thing that struck me during my recent playthrough of Maniac Mansion was that some of the verbs were so specific that they gave me clues about upcoming puzzles and what I’d need to do to solve them. Such as the ‘fix’ verb everyone keeps referring to. As someone who hates spoilers and hints (unless I get mega stuck), that bothered me a bit.

The same with the way certain combinations of verbs and objects automatically add a ‘with’. In most cases if it doesn’t do that it means the item is probably useless, or at the least not very important.

I think for these reasons I’d like verbs to be fewer in number and less specific.

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12!
Because it has too be a multiple of 3 for arranging. 15 is a bit too much, 9 a bit too little.
Of course it doesn’t combine very well with an icon inventory. But that wasn’t the poll subject :slight_smile:

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Or “whip”, “punch”, “shoot” and “make sarcastic remark” The latter of course being too long, but I’d like the idea to have a verb to “think” and evoke some comments from the character (“talk to self”).

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@Someone
I’m sure if your put some effort into this, you could come up with something that feels less limited, makes more sense but doesn’t end in a sandbox like experience too. You can get around many limitations with the existing system and a suited design but you certainly could enhance the current situation if you think it all through, which no one seems to do.

I almost forgot about Leather Goddesses of Phobos, nice. Because it’s only partly a digital product, it also ages.

A nose, telepathy … could work as an integral part of the puzzles and game design already. Games don’t have to, but I think, its nice when they have something unique which also shows up in their interfaces.

Why do you feel free in the Broken Sword series?

I didn’t feel freedom in Broken Sword (some scenes were rather limiting) and Fate had the problem that its riddles weren’t really good. Broken Sword lives from its story and characters. Fate benefits from the exploration of different locations and being Indy but the puzzles weren’t clever and the interface wasn’t used to its potential.

I get your point about its you, who has to get the solution but the better an interface, the more suited the actions are, the better (potentially) could be the result and the game-/puzzle-design.

You have to wait until the first meal is cooked. Then the microwave makes “ping”. Another “use” would open the microwave. Before you can insert the egg you have to “use” the meal to remove it from the microwave). Now you can “use” the egg with the microwave. (From the developers point view it’s a simple state machine - and you can convert all puzzles in such a state machine if you like.)

Depends on how you set the hotspots and how big the objects are presented on the screen. If necessary you could switch the view and present the object in fullscreen. For example you can show a close up of the microwave (that makes it easier to push a specific button).

Depends on the puzzle. :slight_smile: (btw: Now we are trying to create a one-click interface - but we don’t like that? :wink: )

Yes, it was useless in MM - but maybe it wouldn’t be that useless in other games. For example in Zak McKracken or the Indy series.

But isn’t that true for “push”, “pull” and “give”? Beside that, there are other non-specific verbs a developer could chose. For example in Indy a “whip” verb.

+1

No, I feel less free in the Broken Sword series (compared to Indy 3 where I feel much more free).

That’s true. :slight_smile:

The question “how many verbs are prefect” came up regularly here in the forum and I admit that I have often thought about it. So I just would liked to create a topic for it. :slight_smile:

Personally I like the SCUMM interface a lot. And if I would create a SCUMM like adventure game I wouldn’t chose only 9 verbs.

Oh, my fault.

I think the answer is obvious, it depends on your specific game due to what others and I wrote above already. Anything from 4(+ special verbs/icons) to 9 verbs/icons could work.

An interesting part of the question is ‘What could you do instead?’ or ‘How to evolve?’ It’s a little bit like, asking for ‘What’s the best solution for an app interface on a text based system?’ whilst you’re running on a GUI based system already.

OK, now you are just trying to torture the user :slight_smile:

I was referring to the puzzle in Maniac Mansion (and also TWP) where you have to put another item at the same time in the microwave oven.
If you put the one first in it, close the door and then remember it may be a good idea to put another one also in, then you have a problem. Turning on the microwave just so you can get back to the open state is of course not very feasible.

Yes, close-ups would be another possibility at least for interesting objects! But then the implementation is rather expensive…

Well, I like verbs but these particular ones (Push/Pull) I could see merged into a “Move” verb.

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I was thinking along similar lines as @PiecesOfKate and @Someone that just having the Fix verb visible at the beginning of the game got you thinking about things. Even if it ended up being a useless verb, it helped when playing MM (my first ever LA game) because I thought “hmm… this is a game where you can Fix things, but what? The staircase? The phone? Dinner?” Though I don’t think it was a spoiler, the game was hard enough already…

:cry: :cry: :cry:

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Btw. my selection in the survey was “Other” and the reason is:
I have enjoyed playing a lot of games with nearly no verbs and many with more or a lot of verbs but I don’t really care about the actual verb count as long as it works with that game and I enjoy it.

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I think those are more generic. ‘Fix’ very explicitly hints at having to mend something that’s broken -
like the wires. I thought maybe you had to pick them up at first, but when ‘fix wires’ automatically added a ‘with’ on the end I knew straight away what I had to do.

I know not everyone would approach that puzzle that way, but it’s just an example of how specific verbs and prepositions can steer the player.

You know, despite this coming from the girl who found bits of that game bloody difficult…

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Some games do that actually. :wink:

You can combine these objects in your inventory (before putting them in the microwave). Another solution would be a close up of the microwave.

But the programming is cheaper. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

It’s just a hint like all other hints in the game. You only know that you can fix something, but not what and when (and if that is really necessary at all). It’s the same if to find a key: You know that you need it but not when and where.

Don’t forget that Ron would like (or need?) to produce games that sold well. Beside that, I don’t share his thoughts/opinion either. The SCUMM interface works still well - as we can see in other threads here. Especially kids seem to like this kind of interface.

You are not alone. :slight_smile: I don’t know any person who solved MM without help.

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I´m glad you were able to look past all these trappings and recognise it for the great game that it is. Many put it down just for these flaws, but in the end I think the good far outweighs the bad in MM. :slight_smile:

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Definitely. It’s easy to think ‘this is a right ball-ache’ when you’re stuck in the midst of a difficult puzzle, but having reflected on it as a whole it’s a really good game (especially for the time).

Welcome to tech support hell. :slight_smile:

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