Official Thimbleweed Park Forums

A slight user interface inconsistency


#1

I find it a bit odd that if you point the cursor at non-playable characters like e.g. the sheriff the default action for right-clicking is ‘talk to’. However, if you do the same with playable characters, like Ray or Ransome, the default action still is ‘walk to’ and not ‘talk to’.

As you have since added the feature of it being possible to talk to playable characters as well, it would be nice if this slight inconsistency could be rectified in any of the future patches / updates.

Otherwise, Thimbleweed Park really is a lovely effort :-).


#2

Please put this in the support category.


#3

That was done on purpose. When dealing with NPC, the most common thing you want to do is interact with them (talk to) so it’s the default verb. Not so with playable characters, talking to them is something you rarely need and is not needed to solve the game. The playable character can also move around and when the default verb was TALK TO, it was too easy to accidentally start a conversation that you then had to exit out of. You will also notice that TALK TO on NPC’s works a little differently than other verbs, in that a single click with invoking it, rather the right click. This was one after watching playtesters and realizing that a lot of people missed talking to characters, this solved that issues, but due to TALK TO to being an odd case, it was a pain to code it up for playable characters without it becoming frustrating for players. This was done post-ship as a patch, so I didn’t have the time or wanted to risk rewriting the verb system.

Hope that helps explains it. 20/20 hindsight, I might have done it differently.


#5

Speak for yourself, pal!


#7

Uhhhmm…oh yes seems like I claimed that, didn´t I? :flushed:


#9

Well, wouldn´t that be new?

Anyway, I´m not quite sure what you mean by automated talk? What do the other characters have to do with Ransome´s uncensored cursing?


#12

Hi Ron,

sorry for the late (actual) reply.

However, something you need even less than talk to a fellow character is to walk towards them !!! It is completely superfluous and useless !!! That is why I was so surprised !!!

In any case, one thing that I do accept from your point of view as a programmer is the pain in the supposed arm / arse of programming ‘talk to’ as the default right-click action for any fellow playable characters given the fact that all of this only was a post actual release feature in the first place !!!

Nevertheless, I would still be very grateful if all of this were turned into (a) regular release feature(s) should Thimbleweed Park see any special / backers / deluxe version ;-).

By the way, Jenn said some time ago that some time ago there had been plans to have the classic verbs in the various languages that the interface of Thimbleweed Park actually came in and that were translated into English et al. in the original form they used to have in e.g. Monkey 2 and Indy 4 in classic mode for Thimbleweed Park.

However, we are still waiting for that !!! The (new) German verbs still are in the same deplorable state that they were in when Thimbleweed Park was released in the first place !!!


#13

The normal thing to do is interact with the environment and NPCs which you’d often do with right click.
And the way it’s currently implemented results in the other player characters no getting into the way, e.g. when they are standing in front of a hot spot (which regularly happens with doors/exits for instance).

IMHO this inconsistency is good for the gameplay.

I’m sure what you want is not going to happen. There is no real reason to do this and especially not putting any work into it.


#14

“Not so with playable characters, talking to them is something you rarely need and is not needed to solve the game. The playable character can also move around and when the default verb was TALK TO, it was too easy to accidentally start a conversation that you then had to exit out of.”

Hi Ron,

Sorry for this even later reply ;-). However, I would be prepared to accept your line of argumentation if it were possible to switch characters by clicking on them directly instead of the usual way (selecting them via the icons in the top right corner of the screen). Instead, all that you can do is walk to them and nothing else. That is why I still believe that right-click talk to would have been a sensible and convenient addition (cf. Monkey Island 2 et al.).

However, I do not know how the mouse button stuff is handled in the Linux and Mac versions of Thimbleweed Park. If I remember correctly, the Mac only used to have one-button mice for years. I do not know how it is the case today. Meanwhile, Linux always has, as far as I know, always supported more than one button but there you had/have the Unix tradition of being able to “left-click” with either the left or right mouse button.

So from the technical side of things, I do accept your line of argumentation. From the gameplay side, I do not.

Anyway, Cheers :slight_smile:

P.S.: By the way, there is another little inconsistency: Why is the option for enabling/disabling the Ransome Unbeeped DLC under video and not sound - after all, the text does not change if you enable it :wink:


#15

Hi,

Sorry for the late reply :-). Although you are of course also right in a way, sometimes, also in other adventure games, it is possible to talk to your fellow player characters and ask them for hints and suggestions. That is why right-click talk to would be a very convenient addition (at least for the Windows version).

As I said (see above), from the technical point of view, I do accept Ron’s line of argumentation.

Cheers :slight_smile:


#16

Because Ransome swears so much it’ll make your eyes bleed.
:ransome: :smile:

Or it is an effective way to avoid kids enabling it.


#17

Today they have two-button mice (since several years, AFAIK since the iMac series). But the new trends seems to be touchpads as a mouse replacement …

No. :slight_smile: The majority of the desktop environments (KDE, Gnome, etc.) have used and are using the second button like Windows. Buy you can configure that of course. :slight_smile:


#18

Did you notice playtesters wasting a lot of time trying to “give” everything to everyone (and being frustrated)?


#19

Can you think of one in which that isn’t the case?

Genuine question, because I’ve never experienced right/secondary click not working more or less like in Windows, and I’ve tried a buttload of DEs back in the day. :slight_smile: (Unless you mean some tiling wm, I suppose.)

Also, I just realized that it’s probably been about 20 years since I first tried Linux. But only going on 10 as my main home OS.


#20

I like to live dangerously ;-).


#21

Hi,

My last Linux distribution was Suse 11 or so (at the time they were a kind of de facto standard over here in Germany for people who wanted to have a good distribution that was reasonably user-friendly and easy to install - nevertheless, the console would still rear its ugly head from time to time if you basically pressed the wrong button - it was alright for me as a DOS veteran and experience with typing stuff instead of clicking on icons but in those days Linux definitely was not anything to be let loose on Joe or Joanne Average User - I do not know what things are like today - unfortunately I do not really have time for or feel like formatting my hard disk every couple of days in order to try out a new system - am quite happy with Win 10 apart from the default software midi that was introduced after Win7 - I just prefer my hardware Roland SC-55s, SCB-7, and MT-32 for the old classics :wink: - by the way, I also find that with Win7+ it is much easier to get old stuff to run than it used to be with WinXP but maybe I have just been lucky - alright, for some games you need tricks like compatibility modes or installing them in safe mode (Win10 - e.g. Comanche 4) but I am still quite impressed with how much of my old stuff still works).

As far as either left or right mouse button for ‘left-clicking’ was concerned, I was thinking of things like CDE or OpenStep. And if my memory is not completely clouded, I think it also was possible with KDE 3.x but I am not sure.

As far as I am concerned, my favourite Linux desktop was KDE (3.x). I never really warmed to Gnome and KDE 4.x took a while for maturing.

Anyway, enough waffling/spamming - before Ron boots me off this forum ;-).

Cheers


Why all threads are going off-topic?
#22

You can just try a Linux LiveUSB if you’re curious. :wink:

Do you run 32-bit Windows 10 by any chance? Windows 10 often works okay for post-2000 stuff but for me the track record isn’t stellar.


#23

No, all DEs I know have a behavior like Windows. But …

… you can actually right-click to open the context menu and then right-click again to activate a menu entry.

AFAIR CDE distinguished between left, middle and right click.

Then you should try Trinity (a KDE 3 fork).


#24

You can’t in Windows? I can’t say it’s one of the things I miss there or even noticed it was missing. :slight_smile: What annoys me about Windows is that you have to click too freaking much. Windows 10 is a little bit better about some things sometimes, like there’s now a built-in scroll activates window. Of course I use Windows 7 at work, which I’m inclined to think is often slightly better than 10 in many ways, but that’s not one of them.

What I generally like in Linux/X about pointer use is that you can right click and keep it pressed while going to a menu entry and then releasing.


#25

AFAIK you can. :slight_smile: