Alternatives to verbs in UI of adventure games

By the way, all of this is conjecture on my part and personal opinion. I am not a game designer, at least not of adventure games, and certainly not of anything notable. :slight_smile:

I have one quick question, because from what you wrote I cannot imagine the answer:

Ok, so the only reason is you would lose interactivity. But then, let me reformulate the question:

Why don’t we just have: left click to act on an object, right click to look, and no inventory? I mean: when you click an object, the puzzle on that object (if any) is automatically solved. (the character automatically uses the right inventory object). What’s the problem? we trust the player, so we know that, if he clicked, he has already solved that puzzle in his mind. And we have also preserved interactivity. So is there nothing wrong with this?

(I am starting to believe that the answer could be “no, there’s nothing wrong with it” :slight_smile: )

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Yes, you might be on to something, DZ-Jay. If we trust the player to think before acting, it becomes very easy to do a good game. We might even put a big “solve puzzle” button that appears when you walk in a certain zone. When you press it, the character solves the puzzle automatically with a cut-scene. (not kidding :))

I mean, if we can trust the player not to press this button until he has solved the puzzle in his mind, where’s the problem?

So the verbs will only be used to interact, not to solve puzzles. (and then they can all become context-sensitive.)

My 3yo daughter had no problem in understanding that the wrench icon in my game meant “use” and the feet meant “go to” and the hand with the arrow meant “pick up”. That made me feel the “coin” was ok to use.

However, there were adults who struggled with the interface. I think it’s that children learn everything by trying stuff and figuring out patterns, adult make expectations in advance and want them satisfied.

This has been an interesting topic, but I feel there’s no “perfect” solution for everything and everyone.

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For example: let’s take one of the best puzzles of all times: Guybrush must saw the peg leg of a pirate (an apparently useless object), because he guesses that then the woodsmith will be called to fix it and leave the shop.

How would this puzzle be implemented with this interface? as soon as you walk near the leg, a button “solve puzzle” appears on the bottom of the screen (not on the leg). You click it. The game asks you: “are you sure you have solved the puzzle in your mind? yes / no”. You press yes. Guybrush takes the saw out of his pocket and saws the leg.

I am not sure if this is crazy or it can work.

It’s crazy AND it can work :stuck_out_tongue: a “do stuff just by going nearby” model would be perfect, in my opinion, for a “choose your own adventure”-style game. Instead of a classical adventure game where you solve puzzles to get to the only (or one of the few) ending(s), the game is not driven by puzzles, but by the choices you made, as if the clicks were just paths you take in the narrative. You click on the peg leg, even if you don’t know why and what he’s going to do… and from that point on, you’re in the “I cut the peg leg” part of the game.

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Ok but I think the game should tell you “are you sure you know why you are clicking”? Because I, as a child, when I played Monkey 1, I did not even understand I was supposed to know that! I thought that the game was just doing what was written in the walkthrough book.

Maybe teams should start making click-and-swipe adventure games to crack a different market.

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After reading all of this I come to the conclusion that designing an adventure game is hard.
I can understand when game designers say: “Ah ∗beep∗ it, let’s just shoot everything!” :slight_smile:

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What a discussion. :slight_smile:

I just want to throw one thing in:

That’s the Larry 7 UI and it doesn’t work(ed): The most time you can use the coin. So the player is focused on the (frequently) offered verbs. He just forget that he can enter verbs. And if he remember that there is a parser, he don’t know what to enter.

btw: A good parser wouldn’t be a problem today. You can define synonyms, so you can “lift” or “pull” a carpet.

So you are saying that the Larry 7 technique (text parser) could work today? or it wouldn’t work anyway because “he forgets that verbs can be entered”?

Yes and no. :slight_smile:

The UI in Larry 7 works only if you force the player to use the parser more often or if you make absolutely clear that the player has to enter a verb in that/a situation.

But the UI of the old Sierra adventures could work: The player has to enter text commands and the characters on the screen are executing these commands immediately. That would be similar to the input method via voice commands.

And that by itself would be a spoiler. Jesus.

Not necessarily: It depends on the puzzles and the hints from the other characters.

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Let’s make a classical example. Two people, A and B, are discussing in front of you. A says to B: “can we speak in private in my room?”. Then A and B go to the room, and lock the door behind them. You follow them, only to see they shut the door in front of you. Now, the puzzle is to understand you need to “listen to door” or “eavesdrop”.

With the Larry 7 interface, the player must first have the idea, then click on the door, choose “other”, and type “listen” or “eavesdrop”.

Now, you say this won’t work because the player has forgotten that they can type a verb. Now, how do you suggest to the player that it’s time to type a verb, without spoiling the puzzle?

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Also you have to face concrete problems due to the “issues” of the moment. For example:
When I had Amiga 500 I never had problems with Monkey Island floppy disks, the 4 disks were just loading fine, the game was cool and played and played again. But I had also Larry 5 and oh shit… it was something like 5 or 6 disks if I remember correctly and the intro could take 15 minutes to load, then you had to right click to switch actions and the mouse was not responding well… then you opened a door and it asked for another disk to load… and so on. The result is been that it was so frustrating playing Larry 5 that I never played again. Well, now there aren’t these kind of problems anymore but I think that a good interface is 40% of the game: you can make an incredible story but if for some reasons you don’t like the way you control the character you end up to quit the game.

yesterday I played Chronicles of Innsmouth, where they have a very nice “listen” puzzle, which I solved by chance. I got close to the bush by chance.

Also, in thimbleweed park, I wore the hat by chance. And a couple of other puzzles I solved by chance.

It’s even worse than that. If your argument “the player can forget” is correct, then this argument applies to non-text interfaces as well. Take the SCI sierra interface, the one with hand-mouth-ear. “ear” is only used once in the game. So the player can forget that it can be used. So, we have to conclude that’s a flaw in the interface? How on earth could we make a game where the ear is often used?

Can’t we just say: “if the player forgets, he lost.”? If he is not able to win the game due to a fault of his own, where’s the problem?

I really dig this idea for a story-driven kind of game, where the player’s decision at any number of ‘decision points’ sort of congeal together and drive the story towards a unique ending (The Stanley Parable comes to mind). You could mix in some more discrete puzzles to keep it varied, as well.

For the interface, the single-click works fine, but there should be some indication as to what your character will do, such as:

on_mouseover(pegleg) give these options:

Saw off the peg leg (if saw in inventory)
Compliment the pirate on his peg leg

But this would be a spoiler. You are not giving the user time to think and solve the puzzle by himself.

it seems better if the verbs that come out on mouseover are only obvious things, that don’t solve puzzles.