Alternatives to verbs in UI of adventure games

That’s not an adventure. :slight_smile: Ultima simulates (in a limited way) a world. That’s a complete different thing. In an adventure I want to solve puzzles and watch a good story. In a role playing game the player makes his own story.

Ok. Assume you have an adventure with these tiny happy trees overall. How the player finds the tree that he need to solve the puzzle?

And how do he finds the objects needed for the puzzles?

What you want is a mixture of an adventure and a role playing game. Have you tried/played “Else Heart.Break()”?

But the player could get lost in the world. And where do you stop? Should it be possible to bake a bread? Even if that’s not necessary to solve a puzzle for the main storyline?

In any way, the result wouldn’t be a classic point and click adventure. But something like this:

Thanks, very interesting.

Ok, let’s forget I said “Ultima”. It’s not necessary to make my point. What I said only requires a dozen doors and a dozen trees in your game. Can we agree that it’s not a problem to have that amount of items in an adventure game, because if you don’t have them, the game will not be very good anyway?

It’s simply another verb alternative. One doesn’t have to be cookie-cutter with everything they do. A “listen” verb (or however it would be executed given this is a thread about alternatives to the typical verbs UI) would be fundamentally integrated in the manner that “talk” or “look at” is. It isn’t some weird one-off idea like baking, farting, running, or smoking but is something fundamental to how we operate in life and thus it could be integrated very naturally to an adventure in a way which is holistic and has the potential to increase the level of immersion in a game world.

(Though if we didn’t fart we might run into problems.)

Of course the story must provide a reason why hiding behind any other tree would not work. For example, the people you want to spy are close to that tree, not to others. Or maybe, when a monster attacks you , there is only that one tree in the vicinity.

If you need to add a dozen trees only to justify a “ear” (or a hug verb), there is something wrong in the puzzle design. :slight_smile:

But as I said: The verbs and puzzles and the story have to fit together. So the dozen trees could be fine of course.

That’s why I think it’s best to have ideas that don’t feel like add-ons but can quite naturally be integrated into the holistic vision of a game. Some Daedalic titles kind of get this right… but not quite IMO. I’m thinking about the unique puzzle mechanics of The Whispered World and Chains of Satinav.

Unique mechanics were weaved integrally into the game, though they’re much more forceful than the “listen” idea.

Argh. Sorry. My fault. I didn’t read your post properly and assumed you replied to something else. :slight_smile: Just ignore my previous reply to you.

Can you give an example? I played The Whispered World some years ago and as far as I remember it used a single click UI?

I’ve veered this off-topic a bit (as I tend to) and am talking less about the pure mechanics of the UI but rather the concept of what can be achieved through the UI. So, in this instance what I’m referring to is how you use Spot to solve puzzles by changing his form in WW, and how you break and repair things to solve many puzzles in Chains of Satinav.

So, as an extension…

By adding a “listen” option somehow through the UI, the puzzle possibilities and integration work naturally in tandem with “talk” and it can be integrated effectively into the holistic gaming experience. “Baking” would be hard to do this with and it’s hard to imagine a game making baking an integral part of the gameplay puzzle mechanics.

Daedalic come up with interesting concepts which are typically quite well integrated into their games for solving puzzles, albeit I felt like Spot was underused in WW.

I honestly don’t understand why you think so. Given that you need a dozen trees anyway (to create immersion), I don’t see the problem.

Maybe we should make more examples, because this is becoming too abstract:

Suppose at one point in the game you need to “walk through” an open window (to escape on the ledge). You can put a “walk through” verb that only appears on open windows. (all windows in the game, not only the one you need to walk through). For this to work, in the game you need to have 5 or 6 windows. But you probably should anyway.

Suppose at one point you need to push a person off a ledge. You can have a “push” verb that only appears when you click on persons. (on all persons in the game, not only that one person). Again, this does not seem to be a problem.

suppose you need to drink an antidote. You can have a “drink” verb that only appears when you click bottles and glasses. (on all bottles and glasses in the game, not only on the one you need to drink). Is it a problem if your game must have a dozen bottles and glasses? I don’t see why.

Suppose at one point you need to hide in a wardrobe. You have a “walk inside” verb that appears on all wardrobes, not just on that one. Is it a big problem if you need to have 2-3 wardrobes in the game? I can see it being kind of a problem, but it does not seem that much of a problem.

I will add more examples if they come to mind…

Ah, yes. That was very cool, indeed.

That’s also true for “listen”: You could “take” a glass and “use” that with the door to hear the voices behind it.

But I got your point. Maniac Mansion used many more “simple” verbs like “read”, “repair”/“fix” and “on” and “off”. I think they fit in your “listen” category.

Yes, that complained several critics/reviews too.

Whispered World has a mouth, eye and hand outside of the stuff one can perform with Spot (a main character in the game). So if they did have some drinking puzzle in the game the mouth would have been used for it just as it’s used for talking. It is occasionally used for puzzles in the game that don’t involve talking.

IIRC you are German. What do you make of Daedalic Ent. and their adventures?

If the story takes place in a house and you have more then one window, then it’s fine. Yes.

That is the problem. :slight_smile: Assume that your game takes place in the dark forest. There is only one small shack with one window. Now you would like to “walk through” the window. So you have to put at least one more window in the shack. So you have to make the shack bigger …

That’s what I meant: You have to change the story and the puzzle just to fit the “walk through” verb, Why not change the puzzle? Let the player throw a rock through the window, so that he can “open” it and let him “walk” through the window (or “use” the hole).

I know what you mean … :slight_smile:

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Maybe “Other” wouldn’t need to list anything. It could just be a mysterious alternative that accounts for many more unusual occurrences and you select it and prepare yourself to be amazed.

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Yup.

Depends on the adventure. :slight_smile:

I liked the story of Whispered World a lot, because it surprised me and had unique characters. The idea with spot was great too.

The Deponia series has in interesting story but for me they made too many parts. If they had “cut” the whole story down to -hm- maybe two parts, the whole adventure would have been better. And I don’t like the “mini games”. They aren’t proper integrate in the story; every time they pulled me out of the story. And it seems to me that Deponia is now a cash cow for Daedalic: Every part has an open end so Daedalic is able to produce another part …

A New Beginning had a good story but too easy puzzles.

The Enda series has a great “black humor” but the two parts are very short. The first part has an interesting ending. :slight_smile:

Overall I don’t like the trend to simple adventure games like “Silence” where I just have to click three times to see the end…

Hey - That’s a very cool idea! :slight_smile:

That’s why I haven’t bought Silence and probably won’t. I hope that Pillars of the Earth won’t be too simplistic…

…Seems it will play like an interactive novel and not a PnC.

I’ve completed three Daedalic games so far (and playing two others). Generally, I quite like their games but they suffer from a lack of polish and care. Deponia is particularly guilty of that (finished part 1 and now playing part 2).

They have a knack for telling good stories. The Dark Eye: Chains of Satinav certainly pulled me in and I look forward to playing Memoria.

Good point… in that case, the story does not allow to add enough “multiplicity” to the world. Good point. So the solution is not as general as I thought.

so , as you say, here we have no solution other than to redesign the puzzle.

for example, the puzzle is not to understand you need to walk through that window, but that you need to walk through that window at a precise time.