Well, it felt way larger than Maniac Mansion to a younger me back in the 80ies.
That’s my perception too. I have described “Casual” to other people as “half the game” even if it probably doesn’t have half the “rooms” of “Hard”.
Yes, from that perspective, Broken Sword games apply the same technique of Indiana Jones or “Lost Horizon”. The protagonist travels all around the world and the game feels bigger.
One reason for that sensation might be linked to the graphic style of the game. Locations in MI or TWP are very differently depicted by the graphic designers but in “Nelly” every location feels very similar to all the others. The colors are quite the same everywhere.
That technique is used also in MI2: during all the first chapter you are confined to a specific island and your goal is to find a way to escape from it and visiting other islands. You should try the game, it’s very good.
I’m still at the beginning of it and it already feels a big game. It gives me the sensation that I have a large world to explore.
I kind of had this feeling when playing MI3… it seemed smaller somehow than MI and MI2. From what I remember, even though it opens up to a new set of rooms at some point, I felt like they were similar in feel to the previous bunch… like there wasn’t enough of a contrast of locations.
Also happens in Flight of the Amazon Queen… once you get to the vista, you can see all around and go to different places.
But that’s valid for Nelly too.
Yes, it felt bigger.
Hm… yes, I agree. But the locations in TWP have a similar graphic style. For example, even if you reach the hotel or the circus it’s still dawn. In Monkey Island you reach the island at daytime.
Zak is wide. A medium user who has already finished it, can take 2~3 hours to finish it again.
could it be the absence of teleporting that makes a game feel bigger? and in general the amount of time it takes to move?
in Zak, traveling costs time and money.
Personally, I don’t think so. In games like that, I just get frustrated and bored, but don’t really feel the game is “larger.”
could it be the absence of teleporting that makes a game feel bigger?
I agree with @DZ-Jay.
One reason why Zak feels “larger” is because it simulates more rooms. For example if you enter the jungle you have to walk through several random generated rooms. So it seems that you have to walk through a large deep jungle until you arrive at the pyramid.
Does Zak feel “big” or “small” to you guys?
It feels big. Even if we scratch mazes, there still seem to be lots of locations. The airports are similar but slightly different, with music changing, so somehow it adds up in my brain. Also the newspaper changes, which is a small thing, yet it makes me feel there’s a world outside the gameplay. Few games manage to make me feel this way. There are more details like that which helps to sell the effect of a varied world (like 3 different reactions to repeated actions of player). I think Zak is the most interesting case in this topic.
I kind of had this feeling when playing MI3… it seemed smaller somehow than MI and MI2. From what I remember, even though it opens up to a new set of rooms at some point, I felt like they were similar in feel to the previous bunch… like there wasn’t enough of a contrast of locations.
I have played that games years ago and I don’t remember much of it, but maybe the feeling that you are describing might be a consequence of Bill Tiller’s style. I should play the game again to see how big it seems to me.
BTW, Tiller has recently developed a short adventure game about (again) pirates, with several references to Monkey Island. Here is a screenshot:
Also happens in Flight of the Amazon Queen
I’m starting to think that this technique is quite common among adventure game designers.
Probably I have never noticed it because I have always played these games just as a player, but now that I’m analyzing them from a technical point of view some common features are becoming more evident to me.
Hm… yes, I agree. But the locations in TWP have a similar graphic style. For example, even if you reach the hotel or the circus it’s still dawn. In Monkey Island you reach the island at daytime.
Yes, TWP wasn’t a good game to use as an example, because it seems that severral people don’t perceive it as big as other games that have a comparable quantity of rooms. From an aesthetic point of view, its graphics still feel to me more diverse than those used in “Nelly”, though.
and in general the amount of time it takes to move?
I don’t think that the time to wait to reach a different city plays a role big as the fact that you visit very different cities. The original Zak was created for a platform that didn’t have multitasking. Today, while Zak is on an airplane, I can do something else with the PC.
That technique is used also in MI2: during all the first chapter you are confined to a specific island and your goal is to find a way to escape from it and visiting other islands. You should try the game, it’s very good.
Oh, I will. I started playing The Secret Of Moneky Island some time ago, but got stuck really bad. I haven’t gone back to it and in the intervening time, Thimbleweed Park was released, I started some other personal projects, and then my computer went kaput. I’d like to finish that one first before moving to the next.
As I remember, I was about to get off the island. I found my way to a pier of sorts, with (I think) an used boat salesman. There was a vending machine of Grog, which I thought was rather clever.
I tried many things (I don’t recall much by now, this was last year), and couldn’t get past it.
Once I get my computer back from the shop (hopefully soon), I’ll try again. I’ll probably start a thread like the one for Zak, to ask for guidance.
I wanted to avoid using a walk-through, which has been the only way I’ve ever managed to complete most of these sort of games. I always consider that a reflection of a flawed design more than my own limitation.
The only ones I’ve managed to complete on my own have been:
- Phantasmagoria
- Day Of The Tentacle
- Thimbleweed Park
And all in “2 brain mode.”
Not coincidentally, those are some of my favorites.
The Space Quest games I play once every few years, and since I have played them many times with walk-throughs, they are burned into my brain. Fortunately, I have really terrible memory (really!), so I tend to forget most details. So, when I struggle on a particular spot, it takes me a while to recall the solution, and it feels more organic, as if I had managed to solve it on my own. It’s a neat mental trick. I also tend to focus more on the game and story details to figure them out, rather than relying on looking up solutions on a walk-through and spoiling it.
dZ.
was about to get off the island. I found my way to a pier
How I envy you!
and in the intervening time, Thimbleweed Park was released, I started some other personal projects, and then my computer went kaput.
That’s no excuse - have Monkey Island finished and on my desk this time tomorrow morning or you’re going to be in detention for a week, etc.
I have never played Zak, I should probably do that at some point… from what bits and pieces I’ve heard though, it sounds like there are some dead-ends and a bunch of frustrating things about it and it’ll take a long time, so I’m kind of avoiding it…
it sounds like there are some dead-ends
Yes, but they are obvious as far as I remember… (Maybe @ZakPhoenixMcKracken can say more about that…)
Also, and I know this is heresy, but I don’t really enjoy Maniac Mansion, and that’s partly why I feel like I won’t enjoy Zak… I kind of assume it’s like a bigger version of MM, with the same more open way of solving puzzles…
If it was closer to Monkey Island style of gameplay/puzzles, etc. then I would more likely enjoy it…
I have never played Zak
Give it a try. Its funny, clever, wide, involving real places on this Earth.
There are some dead ends, but often because you wanted them.
It’s useful to save the game from time to time.
But give it a try.
I kind of assume it’s like a bigger version of MM,
It is, but give it a try.
Zak is not a linear strict game. I mean, there is a final goal to achieve, but you are free to explore, solve the puzzles in multiple ways, anytime. And you can make dumb things, like kill yourself.
It’s this freedom that makes Zak a particular funny game!
Zak is not a linear strict game. I mean, there is a final goal to achieve, but you are free to explore, solve the puzzles in multiple ways, anytime. And you can make dumb things, like kill yourself.
These are all the things I am afraid of!
Also, and I know this is heresy, but I don’t really enjoy Maniac Mansion, and that’s partly why I feel like I won’t enjoy Zak… I kind of assume it’s like a bigger version of MM, with the same more open way of solving puzzles…
If it was closer to Monkey Island style of gameplay/puzzles, etc. then I would more likely enjoy it…
Same thing happened to me. I tried playing Maniac Mansion a few years ago and found it tedious and frustrating. I got stuck a few times and never really got very far. Plus, it didn’t catch my interest all that much for me to persevere or seek a walk-through.
I did love Day Of The Tentacle and thought it was much more fun, with its wacky humour and cartoon aesthetic.
I’ve been following the Zak thread that (I think) @LowLevel started and it seems amazingly complex. I’m kind of scared of it, to be honest.
dZ.
These are all the things I am afraid of!
Ahahah!
Come on, if I did it, when I was 13, with the English dictionary in my hand, with no helps… you can do it!
Give it …
… you know.