Is MI1 better than MI2 only for nostalgic reasons?

Just a remark: those backgrounds are by Peter Chan, not Steve Purcell. (at least, Peter was the one who painted them). Peter also did the DOTT backgrounds. In the commentary of DOTT remastered, Peter explains why they look so different from Monkey2: in DOTT he (together with others) decided to use a completely different style (flat colors, instead of shaded like monkey2) in order to save time and money retouching the scanned backgrounds. This had proved a nightmare in monkey2.

So basically the graphic style of DOTT (which personally I dislike, especially compared to monkey2) was chosen in order to save money.

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@RonGilbert: First of all: Thanks for your answer. Itā€™s always interesting to hear what the developers think about their own games (so, please, join more discussions in this forum - the mobile versions of TWP can wait :wink: ).

Huh - why do you think so?

Yup.

No, No, Nā€¦

ā€¦ ehrm. Oh. Yes. :slight_smile:

Of course this whole thread is nitpicking! :slight_smile: MI1 and MI2 were both great games.

:scream:

I think youā€™re right. Fixed.

I remember seeing screenshots of MI2 in a magazine a couple of years before finally getting the monkey madness CD and being very impressed by the colorful art on MI2 (spitting contest - I started daydreaming about what puzzle might be involved and solving it years before actually playing-, and the close-up of govenor Phatt -still disturbing today-)
Of course no-one played MI2 without playing MI first (neither did I), and I remember when that came out on PC and amiga only (me being stuck with a C64), so in total I have spent more time wanting MI than MI2.
Next to that, more objective facts in favor of both games:
MI1: the title included the word SECRET, which does jumpstart your imagination
MI1: boxart is wonderful: who are all those pirates?
MI1: insult swordfighting!
MI1: musical themes
MI1: the three-headed monkey joke
MI1: the sense of danger was still very much there, since we did not know or fully realize the design philosophy that you could not get killed/stuck
MI1: the rubber tree joke

MI2: the spooky atmosphere on Scabb island (graveyard)
MI2: longer game, less lineair/more open-world feeling
MI2: iMuse. Especially in Tickwood.
MI2: the vertical scroll when diving in the ocean
MI2: Guybrushā€™s beard
MI2: Gubrush style and animation
MI2: the wanted poster evergrowing list of crimes and itā€™s comedy resolution

Nitpicking criticism on both games:
MI1: untill you figure out how to get to the other side of Monkey Island, it feels like a big deserted place (which might be a good thing too, considering it is supposed to be a deserted island)
MI1: short acts 2 and 4
MI1: NCP characters felt more adult (especially versus Guybrush) and menacing/hostileā€¦ not sure if this is bad thing though, but it did influence the sense of ā€œfunā€ for a kid playing the game

MI2: the WTF finale (not so much the final minutes as the whole tunnel part with anachronistic visual elements)
MI2: the mardi gras party, no idea why I dislike it, but I do
MI2: Govenor Phattā€™s mansion: feels empty and disturbing inhabitant
MI2: some ridiculously difficult puzzles (getting some objects at the store with the parrot) that were a bit reverse logic since it was not clear why you need one of them or not until you figured out how to solve another puzzle.

Anyway, I always replay both games back to back as they should be played. But since there wouldnā€™t be a MI2 without SOMI, my end verdict isā€¦ MI1!

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Sushi sushi sushi!
Dalla mente tu mi sgusci!
Your words seem to come out directly from my head! Thatā€™s impressive! I totally agree with your last message!
Aaaaah, the pleasure of being in a place where we share interests!
Some timesā€¦
all you have to do,
to share your point of view,
is to say ā€œI agreeā€!

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:joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

WARNING: lots of spoilers about ā€œThe Secret of Monkey Islandā€ and ā€œMonkey Island 2: LeChuckā€™s Revengeā€, below.

Iā€™ll try to explain why I think MI2 is a better game but I also consider MI1 my favorite adventure game. Maybe writing down these thoughts will help me to understand if my preference is mainly based on nostalgia or not.

First, the higher production values of MI2 are evident and, personally, had a very positive effect on me.

Graphics

While I love the graphics of MI1 backgrounds, playing MI2 was like living in a painting. When I saw for the first time the scanned backgrounds of MI2 I was flabbergasted. I donā€™t think that pixel-art backgrounds are intrinsically worse or better than backgrounds created with other methodologies: regardless of the method used, the important thing to me is if the final graphics manage to convey the right atmosphere. MI2 was (and still is) an adventure game with one of the most beautiful graphics ever and to me it was clear from the first moment that scanning hand-drawn pictures moved the quality on a new level.

(Scabb island cemetery. Design by Steve Purcell. Drawn by Peter Chan)

Atmosphere and mood

One of the things that both MI1 and MI2 do right is to put the player in a dreamy atmosphere when the game starts and this goal is accomplished in part by the fact that itā€™s night both on Melee island and on Scabb island. Walking on Melee and visiting all its darkest places really captivated me and Iā€™ll never forget that magical feeling that I felt moving Guybrush on the Melee map or walking in the woods.

image

MI2 had also these moments and to me the most memorable of them was when I visited for the first time the cemetery on Scabb island: the iMUSE system smoothly provided a slow and gentle music to highlight the sadness and solemnity of the place. I was quite impressed when I experienced it the first time.

If there is one thing that MI1 did better than MI2 in this context is in my opinion the fact that it used in an intelligent way the lack of background music in some places. When I walked on the Melee docks, I was surrounded by silence and that helped me to feel that it was night, when most people sleepā€¦ until I entered the SCUMM bar and was invested by a cheerful music that highlighted the alcoholic activities of a mass of local pirates. The music of the SCUMM bar was good but it was the sudden change between silence and music that made me feel the SCUMM bar even more lively. On the contrary, the soundtrack of MI2 was quite pervasive and I canā€™t remember of a context or location in which silence was used in a similar way.

Music

Itā€™s difficult for me to choose between the soundtrack of MI1 and the soundtrack of MI2. Despite having played the two games about the same quantity of times, I remember more easily the music of MI1 which, by definition, I should consider more memorable to me. :stuck_out_tongue:

I think that the score of MI1 has more ā€œcatchyā€ tunes and thatā€™s probably why I remember them more easily. Some of the songs of MI2 are variations of the same melody or at least recreate a very similar atmosphere (the track of Elaineā€™s Mardi Gras party and the track played when Guybrush is chased by the cook are very similar; the Scabb swamp and the graveyard have musics that are quite similar in style). It needs to be specified, however, that the fact that MI2 provides also some variations of the same melody shouldnā€™t be interpreted as a lack of original new tunes; on the contrary! MI2 is full of good new music: I have already cited the music of the graveyard as one of those that impressed me the most, but the Largo theme is also great.

I would say that the music of MI2 is globally composed and arranged in a more sophisticated way when compared to MI1, but thatā€™s just my uneducated impression. The decision of arranging the well known main themes sometimes produced results that I like less, for example I like more the original opening theme of MI1. Other times some themes were used more effectively in MI2, like the LeChuck theme briefly cited before sending you into A Dimension of Infinite Painā„¢ (which, BTW, is still one of the most scariest moments I have experienced in any game). And letā€™s not forget that one of the songs of MI2 was also used for a puzzle!

image

Overall, I would say that I consider the soundtrack of MI2 of higher quality from an artistic point of view, but itā€™s more probable that I would hum under the shower an original tune of MI1. :stuck_out_tongue:

Puzzles

Puzzles in MI1 were good and some of them are my favorite puzzles of the series. I have already cited the ā€œgrog puzzleā€ as my favorite one, but there are also other special puzzles, like the insult fight (which in my opinion is interesting more because of the funny insults than because of the puzzle to solve).

But thatā€™s just about single specific puzzles, not about entire puzzle chains. When it comes to puzzle chains it seems to me that MI2 takes the cake: searching for the four pieces of the map is IMHO the best succession of events and puzzles ever created for an adventure game and this goal is accomplished in part by the fact that I perceived the second chapter of MI2 as enormous. When, after a long succession of events and activities, I finally used the fishing pole on Booty island to retrieve a piece of map from a cliff and I was 100% sure that the little evading piece ofā€¦ paper was finally mine, but it wasnā€™t! Something suddenly happened and I realized that the exhausting chase was not over yet! I still remember what I thought back then: ā€œMy god, this game/puzzle never ends!ā€.

image

The three trials in MI1 are good, but collecting the pieces of map in MI2 is the most intriguing, creative, rich and well designed sequence of events that I have played in an adventure game. Here MI2 wins hands down.

Since Iā€™m talking about puzzles, letā€™s make clear that both MI2 and MI1 had flaws: in MI2 there is the infamous monkey wrench puzzle and in MI1 there is the ā€œred herringā€ puzzle, that for a non-English player like me was equally incomprehensible.

I also like the cleverness of some puzzles in MI2. For example, Guybrush has to realize that he has to create e voodoo doll for Lechuck following the same recipe that the voodoo Lady taught him for Largo. The ā€œIf this is 3, what is this?ā€ was also a small but quite smart puzzle, in my opinion.

Story

I have not observed a strong similarity between the stories of MI1 and MI2, if we exclude that the protagonist and the main villain have to confront each other again. In MI2 your goal is to find a treasure and you have to escape from an island, find a map, following its directions andā€¦ being catapulted into a place completely unrelated to pirates of the Caribbean, but maybe related to ā€œPirates of the Caribbeanā„¢ā€. :stuck_out_tongue:

Actually, I think that the story of MI2 is not just profoundly different from the one of MI1 but also that MI2 was the first chapter of the series in which the authors started to give stronger hints aboutā€¦ ā€œthe wider perspectiveā€ of the story. MI1 was just an introduction to the world of Guybrush: the player notices some funny anachronism but itā€™s easy to assume that they were put there just for comedy purposes, but in MI2 the story becomes more complex: not only the quantity of anachronisms increases but they start to seem somewhat related to each other. Why on earth there are the same tunnels under several islands (under Dinky island, under Phatt island, and even under Melee!)? What are all these shenanigans about theme parks and tickets? What has this to do with pirates? Wasnā€™t the player supposed to find a treasure? Did Guybrush find it? And what about the controversial and puzzling ending (that I perceived as a cliffhanger)?

image

It seems to me that the story of MI2 drastically deviates from the more simple story of MI1, which in retrospect seems just a fantasy fable for kids. Is MI2 still a story about pirates or does it reveal a different reality? All these question have never been answered in an official way and regardless of how much you like MI2 and its ending, my point is that its story is completely a different beast from the one shown in MI1.

Design

I know almost nothing about game design, so Iā€™ll be brief: both games seem quite well designed to me but I HATE the fact that in MI1 you can progress without even meeting the Voodoo Lady. It happened to me the first time that I played the game, which I finished without ever meeting the character! When eventually I realized that there was a completely unknown character that I never met, I was traumatized by the discovery. The Voodoo Lady is a fascinating character that provides a backstory that makes that fantasy world more alive. She also helps the player to understand better whatā€™s happening. Spending time, money and efforts to design and create such a useful character and then making her completely optional is in my opinion a design flaw.

My personal conclusions

So, what are my feelings after having written this wall of text? I still think that MI2 is, technically, a better game. Actually, writing down these thoughts and collecting all these memories has made me realize that I like this game even more than I believed. :slight_smile:

The game is richer, more complex, has clever and long puzzle chains and provides a story that is more sophisticated and mysterious than the one written for MI1.

MI1 is a good game and since it was the first adventure game that I really liked it will always be my favorite one, but I still think that MI2 should take the trophy. :slight_smile:

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And it was then that you took an oath: ā€œFrom now until the end of my days, I will observe everything, or I will die trying.ā€

Very important observation. Sometimes no music is better.

(I agree completely with the whole analysis. I didnā€™t realize the story was so nuanced.)

Nicely recycled in the TV series Lost several years later, by the way. I remember thinking ā€œthatā€™s been done beforeā€ when I saw the hatch.

I only now notice that upside down anchor acting as a cross above the cemetary gatesā€¦ :open_mouth:

That was a very nice touch. I wonder if the idea comes from Purcell or Chan. :slight_smile:

I have a question for those people who think that MI1 is a better game:

had you played MI2 before MI1, do you think that it could have changed your opinion on which game was the best one for you?

Iā€™m not asking what would have happened, because nobody can tell it, but only if you think that the order in which you played the games might have had a role in your choice.

In my case I would say no.

My reasons for MI1 are less based on nostalgia (note that I canā€™t remove my memories completely). I played both games short after/with their release in Germany. They were released within a short interval (one year?) and I replayed both games since then several times (in random order).

As the story of MI2 is based on MI1 and you have to know MI1 to understand some of the jokes maybe the opposite would be true: I would love the story MI1 even more. :wink:

You write things that look as coming from my mind, to meā€¦ I was about to write that the chronological playing order is a much more powerful bias then nostalgia, in my opinion!

And I also second ALL of your long post. And I have to admit that youā€™re right: I agree that while MI2 is a better game, I prefer MI1 for many reasons.

Hey, Gffp!

Donā€™t even think that I didnā€™t notice your voteā€¦ :wink:

That was an ad personam option. Thereā€™s only one subscriber in this thread who can legitimately (and a bit sadically) answer ā€œMI3aā€ā€¦ :sweat_smile:

No, I played MI1 first on Amiga 500ā€¦ no english knowledge at all, click and go, and I still understood the mood, atmosphere and emotions. That good it was.

MI1 just started perfectly and it was the best story ever made by that time. We were missing the genre a lotā€¦ islands, mystery, ghosts, pirates, cannibals and loveā€¦everything made without harming anyone.

well, I have a few guinea pigs (aka kids) that I could use to try out for real. Perhaps not letting them play the whole MI2 first of course, but letā€™s say the first few hours.

for myself, as I mentioned above, I have experienced the release of both games by reading about them in game magazines well before I finally had a PC myself and could finally play them. I remember in those years of waiting and yerning (mind you that it still took a few years between having a PC and finding a copy of the game to buy), I always thought the graphics of MI2 were so much better and I was also biased with the review scores (MI 90%, MI2 92%), so thinking MI2 is the better game - which in more than a few respects it certainly is -
But for some reason, I felt more ā€œat homeā€ in SOMI. Or perhaps it was the release of FINALLY being able to play MI !
(sidenote: the nightly setting is crucial - in Curse of MI I had the same feeling when entering rooms that are at night)
But I am sure if I would have only found MI2 in the shop, I would have preferred that one over SOMI, just the same way Zak is my favorite on a purely nostaligic basis.
As I listed earlier, both games have their strengths and weaknesses compared to one another. And luckily we do not have to choose to live without either. Which is why I did not vote for MI3a. I spent enough years of pure agony waiting to play a MI game already.

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[ā€¦]

I totally second this.

Look, I DONā€™T think that being influenced by the order of play is related to nostlgia! As somebody noticed, maybe that could be true for games released much later.
I mean, if you played MI1 back then and then Tales of MI years after, and then you try to compare the two games, nostalgia will play a prominent role. But itā€™s not matter of order, itā€™s matter of years passing by.

If you play MI1 and then MI2 a few months later (like most of us probably did), nostalgia doesnā€™t count.
The fact is that if you play MI2 first, its higher production level, its better graphics, its wiser and more complex puzzles, its better music set a benchmark: I wouldnā€™t be sorprised that, if I played MI2 first and then put my hands on MI1 (original version), my high expectations wouldnā€™t have been fulfilled.

So, Iā€™ve been lucky to discover the games in the order I judge ideal: MI1 EGA version first, MI2 then, MI1 CD version after.

Probably playng MI1 first and then its enhanced version immediatlely after MI2 ultimately made my choice.

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luckily, they agreed mostly that the old graphics in MI2 are nicer to look at than the SE version (although they like some visibility and added details in those too).

But my 8 year old (who played a bit of MI before) knew about the ask-me-about-LOOM kept asking to show him LOOM. Heā€™s playing loom right now and doing pretty well without any help (apart from me translating a few things and saying: try that again, but you need to click on the object first). And heā€™s playing the EGA version and says ā€œthose graphics are really niceā€ (I will show him the Steam version later, which is the CD talkie in VGA) and figured out all by himself how to get off the island and past the twisting whirlwind (which I remember I had a hard time to figure out).

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Heā€™s a really smart boy. I was stuck for a while on that.