Ron asked about 3D engines. What do you hope he'll do with them?

Other members of this forum had already explained that, but I think I could add one more reason:

If you have solved Maniac Mansion once it feels “complete”. You have rescued Sandy, the goal is reached, the story told. If you restart the game, the story and the rooms are the same. So most players (including me back then) don’t feel the need to replay the game with other character combinations. Maybe after a while they feel to try another kid combination, but this is due to the fact that they want to re-play the game.

The Cave tells seven completely different stories - one for each character. In addition every character has its own private section. As a player I want to see these seven stories and all parts of the cave. That’s the reason why a lot players restarted the game immediately.

btw: Wasn’t it annoying for you during tests and development to run again and again through the shared sections in The Cave (like the mine)?

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I get that, but isn’t that their hang up and obsession? The game wasn’t design for that.

What is the obsession with seeing “absolutely everything”? I think the problem is with the attitude that the game “blocks you out” from entire rooms if you choose certain characters; as if it were done out of some vicious purpose to deprive you of some enjoyment.

The story may change slightly with different characters, so some locations, events, and puzzles may not apply. This is all part of non-linear storytelling and seems ver natural to me if you want to tell different stories with the game, with the hope of bringing in variation for replayability – not to force people to go through tedious motions in order to “get the full game.”

To me that attitude is just incompatible with such style of expansive games, and goes against the spirit of games that try to bring variation and different telling of the same story through the eyes of different characters.

dZ.

Haha! You can’t fool me. Disney wouldn’t let you. :stuck_out_tongue:

dZ.

I’m not sure if I got your right, :slight_smile: but The Cave focuses on the stories of the seven different characters. They are very, very different, so it’s natural that I’m curious about what happens to each of these characters. In addition, the The Cave is about exploration. So in addition I’m curious how the other parts of the cave look like.

Slightly? In The Cave there are seven different stories: Each character has one. If I chose the Hilbilly I have a complete different story as if I chose one of the others.

Sorry, I haven’t played the game so I don’t know the details, but is it seven completely unrelated stories? Aren’t they at least seven stories that share a timeline of events or at the very least a location (the eponymous cave)?

If so, then it should be clear that they would have some overlapping elements, whether they are rooms, events, or puzzles. After all, the designers saw it fit to release it as a single cohesive game, not seven separate and distinct games.

Again, I am speculating based on my experience in some types of games and what others have said about The Cave before. I don’t have first hand knowledge.

Of course it is natural for you to be curious and to wish to experience all seven stories; but you should also keep in mind that the game is probably not “play seven stories,” but “play one of seven stories” which you can do at seven different times.

If you choose to play through them all in one sitting assuming that it’s a single linear story with seven different chapters that must be played back to back, well that’s on you, no?

dZ.

Ron gave up on Monkey Island 3a, and decided to go for Monkey Island 3d instead (well, 3D if you prefer). :grin:

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Yes …

… and yes. :slight_smile: I would recommend to play it. :wink:

All characters share the need to walk through The Cave. The whole cave is divided into levels or sections: After solving the puzzles in one section, you can’t go back. Each section tells its own story (which is not related to the other stories). Some sections are dedicated to exactly one of the characters. For example if you chose the Hillbilly, you have to enter a section that is a circus. Theses sections are telling the stories of the corresponding character - in the example the circus tells the story of the Hillbilly.

To get to those sections you have to solve several other sections, for example an island. These other sections remain the same, even if you restart the game with other characters. So if you would like to see all special sections and thus the stories of each character, you have to walk through the island several times.

If so, then that didn’t worked as expected. :wink: The only overlapping element is the need of the characters to help each other to get through and out of the cave. There is no “together we have to rescue Sandy from the meteor”. Each character has its own thing of desire that he has to find in the cave.

If a game tells you at the start screen: “Chose one of seven stories”. Would you play the game only once? Aren’t you curious about the other stories? Can you resist not to restart the game and play one of the other stories?

One problem is, that the game doesn’t tell you, that you have to replay several sections. After the first playthrough I really thought that the sections were randomly chosen.

Please play The Cave and tell me, if you are able to resist. :slight_smile: (Really, The Cave is a really, really great game, play it!)

Yes despite these trappings (though the inbetween sections that repeat on every playthrough were less of a problem to me than only being able to play one new character on the 3rd playthrough) I really enjoyed the game and would never have given the game bad reviews because of that. The voice actor who does the Cave is really really good, the humour is vicious and the atmosphere of the rooms make the long walks more enjoyable.

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Why did this bother people (and it did!), when having to replay huge chunks of Maniac Mansion to get all 7 kids through?

Actually I did not get all 7 kids through exactly for this reason. (I did not feel like replaying from scratch. )

(OTOH I regularly replay Monkey 2 and Indy 4)

You don´t need to. Only 4. You have to take Dave, Syd an Razor are exactly the same and Jeff doesn´t have anything special about him. That leaves the meteor contract(Wendy), Tentacle befriending(Syd or Razor), Ed befriending(Michael) and Meteor police(Bernard) solutions (you can even combine the meter police and contract ones).

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Well, in my opinion, that is just common sense. Some things shouldn’t have to be spelled out explicitly. :wink:

It sounds like you play the game, reach the end, and get the story. Then if you play again, you may get a different story. I guess it should be obvious that it is not a completely different game, just a different story within the same game world, so elements will overlap.

I’ll reserve judgement until I play the game. Going by yours and other’s descriptions, the complaints seem capricious.

Hehe, I will play it, now I am very curious. :slight_smile:

One last thing I want to point out: I am not suggesting that it is in anyway wrong or unreasonable to wish to follow all stories. I think that is natural. I am saying that, in my opinion, it is not very reasonable to complain about a game that reuses its elements in order to tell separate yet related stories.

Again, I’m going by your description; I’ll go play the game first and discuss it further with you then. Perhaps I’ll share your mind after playing. :slight_smile:

dZ.

By all means do! It is a great puzzle platformer. The mandatory common sections are pretty much its only downside and one can easily look over it. That does add maybe about an extra hour of not so exciting gameplay for reaching the end with each character at least once, but it is still worth the effort.

Of course, you wouldn’t know that when you are new to the game. Or would you read a walkthrough first?
I guess, many people only played the Bernard solution anyway, as this was recommended by many magazines.

Well, I think Unity is better because I have tried it out myself and its really easy to use!

I have not played “The Cave”, because I was not interested in the platform elements of the game but I know how the game works. The issue for me is that if I have to play every time the same 80% of the game to get only that 20% of different things, I’m sure that it would be boring as hell for me.

I have the same problem with that Full-Motion-Video game that I played a few weeks ago: it’s practically a movie. Too see a different branch of the story I have to watch again the already-watched part of the movie that comes before the fork.

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Sure, because that one is the least likely to get you into an dead end (you don´t have to fetch the package or worry about ripping the envelope etc). Also with either Bernard or Jeff on your team you basically never have to get yourself caught because you can distract Edna on the telephone.
So I think that´s the reason why this was the recommended solution, I think that was only the one I played. I played the others only years later. But Maniac Mansion is also a lot more of a cryptic game than the Cave is, I never once needed a guide for The Cave.

Since I missed the question on Twitter, I’m actually more interested in the answers.

What is better, as a C++ expert? Unity or Unreal?

There are 12 sections where 7 of them are for indiviual characters. So you play 8 section with each playthrough, ie. 5 out of 8 are mandatory repeats where 3 of them are the main part and the other two are the intro and the end part of the game. Not exactly 80%, but still quite a bit.

You can read the answers that Ron received (and his comments) on the Twitter post:

As you can expect from any “X vs Y” discussion on the Internet, the people who commented harmoniously reached a shared and firm conclusion to the question.

(but Unity official language is C#, not C++)

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It should be easy for a programmer to switch from C++ to C# (and similar object-oriented languages).

Easy doesn’t imply pleasant.

From that Twitter thread: