I did this already, many times… Then scratched. it. it didn’t work… It had all the problems of scumm…
this game is not about using objects, but about understanding things and relationships about the world…
those are the puzzles that I like. understand that someone is in fact someone else… understand that if you do X, then Y will happen… understand that it was A who put that thing there… and so on. once you understood this, the action is taken automatically by the character, because the puzzle is essentially solved…
It was my first impression too. But once you get the grasp of what the game wants, it’s a very fun experience. The best part is that you’re free to explore without having to examine all the hotspots in each room. Kinda like when I was stuck for two days trying to open the portal for Franklin because I never bothered to go all the way up Madame Morena’s library.
So keep on playing, once you’re freed of the old point-and-click mindset it will be way more enjoyable.
And you get nice insults if you just put gibberish in your solutions
(after private conversation) the main problem seems to be that @Gffp wants to do the exploration (i.e. examining objects) himself. In this game, the examination of objects is done automatically by the character, because it is a chore IMHO. Examining is not a puzzle. But he wants to be able to do things (look, in particular) that are not puzzles. Sometimes I have put “look” buttons to do just that. But only for specific objects, and that’s not enough for him, it seems. If I change the game to satisfy him, I’ll impose a burden on players (like me) that don’t want to have to examine everything…
Also, if I do this, lots of people will get stuck because they haven’t examined everything. The game will be harder. As it is now, my mother could play it…
then again, I could introduce a "look " verb that is OPTIONAL. It would simply recall the memory you have about that object… (a function that’s already there, actually). And if you have no memory, the game would say “there’s nothing special about it”. Basically I’d ony have to rename “remember an object” to “look”, and put it below “walk”.
Interesting. I usually examine things for two reasons: there might be a hint on what the thing is for, or there is a joke waiting for me (for more serious games, there may be insight on the game universe or other stuff that makes me immerse more), but your game does both for me, so I’m fine.
To be honest when asked by @seguso to test his game, I accepted knowing that what I had understood about the interface was distant from my way of enjoying an adventure game.
I’m not this great gamer (not a gamer at all now with the exception of classic adventures I play very rarely).
Then I like that kind of experience The Secret of Monkey Island gave me. It is a foundational title and my experience shows me how gameplay in TWP is exactly what great developers could do to improve that kind of user experience.
You can see it’s not nostalgia also because even back then in the nineties, I found the interface of many games ugly. Rarely I found a game enjoyable.
Also I think it does bring nowhere if you just test and praise. I’ve spent several posts to praise Seguso’s art for example.
It could be more useful for the developer to know what kind of things were disliked by the people who disliked the interface, than knowing what kind of things were liked by the people who liked the interface😎
Edit: the idea of a tutorial for example is a great idea. Even greater if Monkey Island themed!
Yes but there you can have a richer exploring experience. It’s the illusion of a living world (on which also TWP winks the eye all along the story) that allows my frustration for not knowing what to do to lower or disappear. It’s those “dead” times that made me love TSOMI or similar games. I wrote before here that I wondered in Melee Island with Guybrush for years before understanding what to do. But I just liked that, and it was enough to insert again the disk in the floppy drive (together with music, graphics and story).
I agree with you that Indy3 and ZMATAM have a lower “degree of freedom” for the player… but still enjoyable to me. I also love when the writer comes out with a great joke for a non useful combination or interaction.
It’s everything is not stricly useful for the puzzle chain resolution that made TSOMI such a great gaming experience to me.
I remember in Monkey1 and Monkey2 , when I was stuck, you could try combining objects as much as you wanted, and nothing worked. You only got failure messages… this didn’t give me any illusion of freedom.
more in general , I don’t think I ever had any illusion of freedom while I was stuck, in any game… because then (by definition) nothing you try seems to work. You aren’t free to do anything, if nothing works…
I liked to roam about in Monkey2 when I was stuck, but that’s because of the music and the suggestive settings, not because I had any illusion of freedom. (and this —walking around while stuck—is something you can do in my game too, once there is music)
for all these reasons, I need to interpret what you say very carefully, to understand what I can add to make it better for you while not breaking it for others…
Other question: what if I allow you to click on the graphics? for example you click on the table, and you get a menu "look at ", “climb”… (these things will never solve any puzzle, mind you… just to give you the illusion of freedom)
well, these things would be completely optional and lead you nowhere… they wouldn’t solve puzzles. So it wouldn’t break anything for me. I guess. (unless the user felt compelled to do them, but even so, it could be acceptable… need to think it over…)
Edit: no… if the user expects to be able to solve puzzles in that way, it would be catastrophic. it could cause even more confusion. (“Why are there two ways to do things?”)
Instead, allowing you to click on the graphics to compose a puzzle solution is much more complicated… because then I would still need to ask you “in order to … because … someone … will do something”
.
I think there’s always something I can do…
. But I’d prefer playing the tutorial first.
