Well, if that’s true , then I have no problem with that. If that’s what the game is, that’s what it is!
But to me it wasn’t obvious … not at all. Honest.
I mean, if it was clear that “you’re supposed to combine anything in any way that might produce a funny result”, I would have no problem. You don’t argue with the developers’s goals.
But anyway, I don’t think this is how the authors think of their own game. Otherwise they wouldn’t have put the clue that Kate was going to Phatt Island (yes, she does say that). Or the cutscene where you are arrested after the guard sees your face. All these things wouldn’t be needed. After all, you are supposed to try this kind of stuff anyway…
It seems to me they have always strived to make your actions seem useful, before the fact and after the fact, not just at the metalevel of “producing funny results”, but also at the level of the character’s goals.
So if in Monkey2 I were to find a puzzle that only makes sense at the metalevel of “producing funny results”, and the authors told me “come on, it was obvious you were supposed to try that, just because it could be fun”, I would be mad and complain about “third wall breaking”. (but I’m not saying Monkey2 does that).
Maybe I wasn’t clear, but you brought my example to the extreme, and this is not what I intended. Of course hints are there because they want to bring you to the end, it’s not like you are really encouraged to try everything with everything. But I still think there’s some kind of freedom intended here.
For example, in Kill Yourself I wanted the player to try stuff, just for the fun of it. Some things make no sense, but if you try them, you might get a hint, or you learn through failures. Because trying out things might be fun, but I want the player to think of the meaning of what happened. I don’t know if you already solved I’m shocked, but it’s a kind of puzzle that’s easier to solve if you already tried to do the right thing for no reason at all. You have to do X after having done Y. If you just do X, you fail, but if you did Y in another game - even if you had no reason at all - now you know what’s missing.
Or Hang in there, it has a similar setup: most players had problems when you fail and he says “I might be too heavy”. But players that already did the right thing just for the fun of it could link to what he says and understand what’s needed. It’s a different process, and I’m totally happy with it
The one in the bathtub? I did. It was one of the easiest for me, because there I had a clear goal.
BTW, if you want me to try stuff, it might make sense to make me combine objects with 2 clicks instead of 3. In fact, I thought you were trying to discourage me from trying stuff, for that reason.
interesting. I don’t know what you are referring to. Maybe it’s not the bathtub puzzle then…
I know that you didn’t say that you are supposed to try everything. I thought you were saying you’re supposed to try everything that might have a funny result.
I see, in Kill Yourself you are supposed to try combining stuff, and trying combinations is the way you learn and get clues. I just would never have thought of Monkey2 that way. Probably because of the vastness, and the huge amount of combinations, I don’t know.
No, that’s That’s no toaster as for combining objects with two clicks, that’s because I just replicated the mobile interface, and with touch I wanted to avoid holding, dragging and whatever because I don’t like that your finger is in the way. So you tap, you choose the verb on the “coin”, and tap again. On PC I could have done something different, but I didn’t want to redesign, just make it playable again.
these are all the icons you’re going to need for part 1 for the composer window… now I’m going to do all the inventory icons… (there aren’t many objects fortunately)
I think it’s amazing how you are able to do such overhauls so quickly, it seems like it must be a lot of work and shows your dedication.
The two criticisms I can give the game are those that have kept me from playing it for a couple days: It’s very expansive, very quickly. Daunting. Secondly, I understand insulting the player but those few clicks to get through being insulted make the game a lot easier to quit playing.
Yeah… I wanted to do something like Monkey 2 part2 or King’s quest 1. Maybe I opened up the world too quickly…
Yeah, those clicks (like the insults) are there to discourage you from using that window, or more precisely the submit button of that window… it’s very hard to convey the fact that you are not supposed to use a window until you are sure you have solved a puzzle. Anyway, the insults will probably go away with the new UI.
Anyway, @guga finished the game without ever being insulted, except a couple of times when he was figuring out the UI. He didn’t execute any action until he was sure he would be successful. He was playing the right way This is a different kind of game, where you are not supposed to try. You are supposed to know. Anyway, this will change for 50% of the puzzles with the new UI.
I thought the insults were there to encourage you to try things out tbh. I was disappointed when they looped.
While I have seen a truly confounding let’s play of TWP where someone was literally brute-forcing things, from my perspective you may be confusing playing with the game world for trying. I think the interface in its current form would be improved by making relevant memories more easily accessible from a specific location.
I do seem to have somewhat lost interest at the point where I’m stuck now I’m afraid.
Well, in this game there is no playing with the world… the idea is that all clues are given to you by just walking, and you need to use the mouse only when you figured out a solution. This rules out playing with the world. It wasn’t planned. I wanted a minimalistic experience from the start. (and even if I wanted to allow playing with the world, that would require a second UI. That UI wouldn’t work.)
Anyway, I am now trying to add the possibility to “play with the world” via the new UI (via object combinations). It’s leading me to handle combinations that were previously impossible and will now give some funny results. It’s interesting.
I don’t think I understand what you mean here?
I’m not pushing you because it’s better to wait for the new UI, or even longer for the music.
If that’s the case, why are there so many different IQ levels??? Anyway, all the things I was trying made sense in my head. Even if the game didn’t see my line of thinking.
I just thought was funnier than “you need to wait for 5 minutes before you can use this window again” (which I also considered)
You found out a couple of things I was planning to handle but didn’t have the time to. And 2-3 things I hadn’t thought of. But they aren’t many… the UI is built so that it’s extremely unlikely you will be able to compose something that makes sense. If it happens 5-10 times it’s ok. I can handle that.
I need to go through the things you tried. If it happened to you more than 5-6 times, is it possible that the sentence you composed made sense on its own but not with the objective?
I’m not saying you should change the game (by and large), just that having to randomly try things is roughly the difference between TWP and a bad game.
You have all memories available everywhere all the time which is nice, but they might trigger better combined with seeing the relevant picture.
When I was first figuring out the interface, I got a couple of insults and I got a laugh out of it. But then it was really discouraging. I was like “oh no, I can’t just guess, I’ll have my level lowered again”… so when I tried things I wasn’t too sure about and saw Olivia say “it makes no sense”, I was anticipating the insult SO MUCH that I was almost sweating when I clicked to reveal it.
And every time, 100% guarantee, I had a hard laugh. That thing is lovely.
I guess I’ll keep the insults then, but only for those puzzles that require the new sentence composer ui. OTOH when you combine two objects , you won’t see them, because that is also a way to experiment, and you can’t be punished for experimenting.
I’ve grown attached to the insults
as for combining objects with two clicks, that’s because I just replicated the mobile interface, and with touch I wanted to avoid holding, dragging and whatever because I don’t like that your finger is in the way. So you tap, you choose the verb on the “coin”, and tap again. On PC I could have done something different, but I didn’t want to redesign, just make it playable again.
Anyway, all the things I was trying made sense in my head. Even if the game didn’t see my line of thinking.
that was my favorite part!