Thimbleweed park 2 in production!

Here ya go:

‘Monkey Island’ Creator Finds Wealthy Investor for Next Game

‘Monkey Island’ Creator Finds Wealthy Investor for Next Game
Ron Gilbert didn’t want to go with a traditional publisher for ‘Thimbleweed Park 2,’ so he took an unorthodox route

The sequel to ‘Thimbleweed Park’ is planned for release in early 2028

Thimbleweed Park Returns
Ron Gilbert, the legendary designer behind video games like Monkey Island, has known for a while what he wanted to make next — a surprise sequel to the 2017 point-and-click adventure Thimbleweed Park. But there was a catch. He needed funding, and he didn’t want to work with a traditional game publisher.

It’s not that all of his experiences working with game publishers have been bad, Gilbert told me this week on a video call from his home in New Zealand. It’s just that the terms have been atrocious, especially in recent years.

“I don’t mind the publisher earning back their money,” Gilbert said. “It’s just that once they have earned back their money and become whole, they still want the majority of the money. Or there are really goofy terms, like you don’t make anything unless it’s a major hit. I always felt that was unfair.”
Gilbert has seen it all in his four-decade career making video games. In the 1980s, he worked as a programmer for Lucasfilm Games, where he pioneered the graphic adventure genre with the zany horror game Maniac Mansion and then perfected it with Monkey Island — a riff on Pirates of the Caribbean that’s packed full of puzzles and gags.
After Lucasfilm, he founded a couple of companies, worked on games in genres ranging from children’s entertainment (Putt Putt) to comedic action (DeathSpank) and then started his current studio, which is called Terrible Toybox.
In 2014, Terrible Toybox raised more than $620,000 on Kickstarter to make Thimbleweed Park, a throwback to Maniac Mansion that blended classic pixel art with modern graphical techniques. The game starred two FBI agents sent to investigate a murder in a small town, heavily inspired by Twin Peaks. It resonated with players, selling more than 300,000 copies and inspiring a great deal of fan art thanks to a slew of memorable characters, such as Ransome, a foul-mouthed clown.

Gilbert and his team then worked with Walt Disney Co. on the fantastic Return to Monkey Island (2022) and last year put out an under-the-radar action game, Death by Scrolling. At some point along the way, he started thinking about the ending to Thimbleweed Park, which went off the rails, eventually revealing that the entire world was, in fact, a video game that needed to be turned off. (This was a polarizing decision that has become something of a Ron Gilbert specialty over the years.)
It suddenly occurred to Gilbert that there was a way to get out of that dead end and develop a Thimbleweed Park 2. “I had this weird brainstorm, so I wrote it down, this one-page story,” he recalled.

In January, Gilbert wrote a blog post suggesting that he wanted to make a Thimbleweed Park 2 but hadn’t yet found funding. He’d ruled out Kickstarter and wrote that publishers had expressed interest but the terms were unpalatable.
Then, Gilbert told me, he was contacted by a friend who knew someone who wanted to fund the game. This wasn’t someone who worked in the video-game industry — it was a wealthy outsider who really liked adventure games and was a big fan of Thimbleweed Park.
Gilbert was skeptical, but he was willing to at least have a conversation with the guy. “This is not the first time this has happened,” Gilbert said. “I said, ‘OK, fine, give me his email.’”
The outsider — who, for the time being, has requested anonymity — turned out to be the real deal. Gilbert put together a budget — “a very realistic one,” he said — for roughly two years of development on Thimbleweed Park 2. It would cost more than the first game, which came in at just over $1 million, both because of inflation and because he wanted to ensure that people were paid properly this time around. (On the first game, some of his developers worked for reduced rates.)

The investor thought it looked good, and the two parties came to terms that were far more attractive to Gilbert than any game publisher had offered. “This deal is a lot more fair in that he gets whole very quickly, and then it’s a reasonable split,” he said.

The plan, Gilbert said, is to release Thimbleweed Park 2 in early 2028. He won’t say much about how he plans to resolve the first game’s ending, although he teases that the game is “not a sequel and it’s not a prequel.” He said there will be a few changes to make things more approachable, such as streamlining the verb box that the first game used for interacting with the world (but not streamlining it quite as much as Return to Monkey Island).
Point-and-click adventure games might not be as lucrative as some other genres in today’s market, but they can still do well, Gilbert told me. He was buoyed by the ongoing success of the first Thimbleweed Park, which has had a long tail thanks to strong word of mouth.
“We’re almost ten years from release and that game still sells,” he said. “That tells me that there is an audience for that game and games like this.”
And what of Monkey Island, the franchise that Gilbert is best known for? He says he’s open to doing another one following the success of Return to Monkey Island, which was published by Devolver Digital. But there are a lot of obstacles — as there have been since Disney purchased Lucasfilm in 2012.

“Now there’s Disney involved, and it’s not that they were bad — they were a good partner, creatively,” Gilbert said. “But Disney, just because of the way they are, they like to work with large companies. They would not work with me directly, which means there would have to be somebody else like a Devolver in the mix for the whole thing. It just gets really complicated.”

4 Likes

On Mastodon he just posted this -

So if he’s using a local LLM already as part of this task, he might now be more open to using them as part of game production.

2 Likes

I’m curious about what he meant by “a local LLM”, because I really don’t see Ron giving money to Nvidia and buying GPUs to run a local LLM.

Probably he means his RipTron 3000.

GrumpyTron 3000.

5 Likes

I can run them perfectly fine on my AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT with 12 GB. You don’t need to run some massive model for simple tasks. Not that I’m actively using them; I’ve only tried if I can run it at a reasonable speed. :slight_smile:

1 Like

A while back I got LM Studio and downloaded a whole bunch of small local LLMs that ran great (I have a RTX 3060 12GB).
The only issue is that there is a constant release of newer/better local models so all the ones I got back then have been far surpassed now… I check the r/LocalLLaMA subreddit every so often to see what’s happening in that world as it’s an interesting space.

Yeah. I ran a model to upscale images on my RX 6600 with 8GB (and it also runs on the CPU, but much, much slower).

As for using AI on a commercially available product, like TWP2, I can understand if there’s some hesitation. There’s probably still a lot of legal battles to be fought before it is safe to assume that what the AI generates is either free of other people’s IP, or it was okay to use that IP in the first place. (I think it’s not okay, but realistically, I doubt a single model will be scrapped because of that; rather it’ll be legalized retroactively).

Personally, I’m fine using the company-sanctioned AI in the more controlled environment I work in, and find it useful for tasks like debugging, writing unit tests, and even some lines of production code every now and then (though that still requires the same level of scrutiny as the output of any random junior dev would). I’d think twice if I wanted to sell software on the free market, though (or contribute to an open source project).

There is a huge gap between relying on a LLM to fill in the season/episode numbers and writing extra dialog. The first task fels like something you could as well script in a few minutes/hours (depending upon your coding skills) and not need a local LLM for anyway. Either way, it is something you might delegate to a six year old and not worry about the outcome. The second task is something you want to have full creative control over.

2 Likes

I wasn’t implying using it to write dialogue, I agree that would be a bad idea.
I assume it would be used for similar small, repetitive tasks like he used it for here, seeing as that’s already his use case.

I also think that the uncertain legal status is one of the biggest reasons why many developers don’t want to use AI. Of course, there are ideological and ethical stances as well, but from a company perspective, playing it safe from a legal and commercial point of view is simply a wise decision.

On an unrelated note, since everyone is talking about AI, an OpenAI internal model solved a millennium prize problem yesterday. But it’s not the Riemann hypothesis, so I’m not that interested.

1 Like

Ron has said that it he doesn’t like the idea of writing code with it, because for a programmer, writing code is a creative process.

(I don’t fully agree. My creative process stops at designing an algorithm; physically typing on a keyboard is not creative for me, but I’ve met colleagues with different opinions.)

In general, I think the conundrum is less about generative AI itself and more about what people generate with it and for which goal.

3 Likes

At first glance, the second half of this chart seemed surprisingly linear. Well, at least more linear than what we’re used to from Ron. Didn’t you notice? Then again, if you rearrange the nodes a bit in the second half, these ones in red might actually all be open in parallel. Still, I wonder why he’s drawn it that way…

Edit: oh, it’s just part one of the game!

2 Likes

Trigger warning! A new Thimbleweed Park 2 blog post by David B. Fox about triggers in the game

6 Likes

Finally!! Congrats to Ron for getting to it.

My one suggestion is that he include Dominic Armato, ideally as a playable character (think - in the style of Ransome the Clown - some minor playable character).

One important question remains though… will there be a TWP3 and how long will we have to wait for it?

3 Likes

5 Likes

first podcast out!! Thimbleweed Park 2 Podcast 1 | Thimbleweed Park 2 dev blog :smiling_face_with_tear:

6 Likes

It’s a creative process. But much more important: Programming is fun. Just pure fun.

And I’m one of those people too. :wink:

1 Like

Depends a bit on what you mean by physically typing. Getting semicolons and brackets just right can be a bit of a distraction, but I do tend to write / design in something I’ll call pseudocode that just might work as is.

On the flip side, with an LLM I sometimes write that pseudocode like actual pseudocode (i.e., something that looks vaguely like Python) or even in broader strokes, but the broader the more likely it is to completely misinterpret it. (Of course that’s why you have to plan it first.)