TWP: is there something wrong with the German verb interface?

Why not give us another option: “klassische deutsche Verben”? Ticking this will give us the same translations of the verbs we had in Monkey Island 2, Indy 4 and Day of the Tentacle.

Unfortunately I don’t have a steam account, so I can’t I add a link in the thread on steam :slight_smile:
(Terrible Toybox is reading this and the steam forum. So they know about these questions. I assume, they would have given an answer or a link already, if they wanted to give/add one… :slight_smile: )

Yeah, more options! :wink:

Are you sure he wrote this on the blog, or did he say it on the podcast he was a guest on? Because I can´t find a written response but I´m pretty sure I remember him saying that on the podcast.

https://blog.thimbleweedpark.com/release_date

Search for the word “Aloha” to jump to his corresponding post. His post is written in German.

2 Likes

Although the game itself seems to indicate that the imperative is correct. The sentence formed uses it.

Yes, and that’s another reason why the current verbs don’t make sense and should be in the imperative form.

So has anybody figured out why Boris said it will all make sense in the end?

Only thing I could imagine is that the verbs start out in first person (put an “ich” in front of all the verbs and they make sense) and when you as the outside player enforce your will onto the playable characters change it into imperative.

1 Like

No. :slight_smile: I/we assume that he is hinting at the end of the game (see @milanfahrnholz post).

Yes, but that still don’t make sense:
First, you tell the game that you want to do something (“ich nehme”). That would be the same as if you would say to me: “I pick up the chainsaw”. In that case I (and the computer) would say: “Ok. And?” In this case the computer (and Ray) haven’t any reason to pick up the chainsaw. So the conversion into the imperative and thus a command is illogical. In my example, you would say “I take the chainsaw” and then I am going to get the “chainsaw” for you. This makes no sense.
Second, you still command the program/game. So you can’t pick up the chainsaw yourself.

No I thought it was more that the way the verbs are portrayed before the sentence is formed show the state that the characters perceive themselves. The “ich” refers to the characters, not you. The character thinks (s)he can pick up the chainsaw him/herself when in fact (s)he needs you to tell him/her first in order to do that.

Ah, Ok. But that doesn’t make sense too, because in the end you give them the command to do something. And if the verbs are reflecting the “thoughts” of the character, you haven’t the commands (on the screen) to force the character to do something. Or in other words: Even if the players are manipulating Rays thoughts, the verbs have to be in the imperative form.

That´s the best I can come up with. The verbs as they appear on screen are like the in game form of the characters minds and only when you click on them you manipulate them in order to force your will onto them.

While I agree that this might be flawed thinking to an extent the more I think about it, the more I´m convinced that this was the intention. I´m going with this until I see a better theory.

1u6g2b

2 Likes

Yes, I agree with you. It’s likely that this was the intention.

Nevertheless: Even in this case the verbs are wrong. But maybe I’m thinking too complex and there is a simple explanation for the non-imperative-verbs that I overlooked. But even then remains the problem that most German players won’t get it and blame the game or the developers for the “wrong” verbs (as we can see in the Steam forum).

It would be really great, if Boris or @RonGilbert (or maybe @David?) could say something about this.

How are all the verbs wrong if you put first person singular in front of them?

Ich öffne
Ich schließ (that was shortened only for space reasons)
Ich gebe
Ich nehme
Ich schaue
Ich rede
Ich drücke
Ich ziehe
Ich nutze (that´s a bit weird admittedly because there is no clear reason to make a distinction here)

But that way of thinking is even more out there. I mean something like that just doesn´t happen by accident or as a mistake everyone goes with.

When I first saw the new verbs I was confused but I didn´t conclude Boris suffered a stroke (or whatever weird reason one might come up with why someone would forget the correct use of his own language).

I was wondering: do robots/computers depicted in old science fiction stories/movies use verbs in a funny way, in German, to highlight the fact that they are not human? If so, does it match with how the verbs have been used in the game interface?

None that I could think of right now. Only that the sentence line in german has always been flawed. “Öffne Tür mit Schlüssel” has never been good german to begin with.

The words are correct of course. :slight_smile: I meant: In TWP the verbs have to be commands (in the imperative form). If you use the verbs you mentioned, at least the sentence line has to be in the same form too (in that case you control the mind of Ray).

If we look back in game history, a lot of games had an awful translation (even Boris’ translations were discussed). This might be a reason why people are assuming that a/the translation is wrong.

But in the English version you have the same: “Open door with key”. :wink:

I can’t remember one too. Robots used this “metal” robot-sound. But in all movies they speak fluid German.

I speak some German, and this never made sense to me either. Especially when we consider that we are even more outsiders from the game than in classic Lucas’ adventures. In TwP we are outside spectators from the upper world. We really do command the characters. We are not the characters in any way. “Ich nehme” would be incorrect. “Nimm” (as a command) would be correct.

But for what it’s worth, I couldn’t really play the Finnish version either. For obvious reasons.

@RonGilbert will have to comment. I know there was a lot of discussion around this, so it’s definitely intentional. One of the issues, of course, is how to get the verbs to fit in the space we had and still be legible.

2 Likes

I’m very intrigued by the fact that there is a rational reason behind this choice mainly because, if I have understood it correctly, it seems somehow connected to the story. :slight_smile: