It seems that Germans profoundly love adventure games. Is it true? If so, why?

They are not, and it sucks big time.

So, I have read all the hypothesis and analyses made in the previous posts and I want to thank those who tried to find an answer to my questions. :slight_smile: It seems to me that the issue is quite complex and that it’s difficult to reach any conclusion.

Just to add a new “data point”, I would like to share a graph that shows the top four countries in which Thimbleweed Park was searched more (on Google in the last 90 days):

Blue: Germany (it’s the country in which Thimbleweed Park has seen the highest percentage of searches in this period. For this reason Germany gets the maximum arbitrary value “100”. All the other countries are shown as a percentage of this “100”)
Red: Spain
Yellow: United Kindom
Green: United States

The peak that you see is, of course, March 31 2017, the day of the release. To sum it up: Germans are about 10 times more interested in Thimbleweed Park than US citizens and about 5 times more interested than UK citizens. :slight_smile:

Source: Google Trends.

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Italy was quite interested in the game too, it’s on par with Spain.

And I’m happy to see that the region that searched for the game the most is Sardinia.

You advertised the game very well. Congratulations! :grinning:

So I just learned that steam blocks german users from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade because it has the international version on it with all the Nazi symbols and Mein Kampf (instead of “Biographie über Hitler”).

Can anyone confirm that the GOG version that has a reachable page for german IPs is the uncensored version?

Why this whole Nazi symbolism in games is still a problematic issue is perfectly illustrated in this article (german):

Indiana Jones® and the Last Crusade™ on GOG is the uncensored English version.
(I don’t think there was ever a censored version in English.)

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Hm, that´s odd. That version is supposed to be blocked.

When I surf in secure mode I see they have Wolfenstein 3D (+Spear of Destiny) which doesn´t show up when I´m logged in with my german IP.

Are German citizens typically blocked from seeing Nazi related content on the web?

Generally no. But when it comes to videogames it´s still a subject as touchy as it was at the movies in the 50s.

These symbols are only allowed in commercial products under certain circumstances (for example for educational purposes). So if you release a product with these symbols it could happen that your product will be forbidden. This was/is valid for Wolfenstein 3D for example. As game developers would like to make money with their games, they change the symbols in advance just to get sure that the game can’t be forbidden. It’s a precaution.

Exactly it´s a precaution. As shown in the Spiegel article I have linked on the latest Wolfenstein realease they even went as far as removing Hitler´s moustache and renaming him Kanzler Hiller or something. They really go overboard there even they don´t have to.

To answer the question maybe I´ll get one for Bark Week… :drum:

The difference is - Wolf3D is banned (you can still buy it on GOG by changing to proxy or VPN), but English Indy3 version was never banned. Btw, on GOG you get full and complete Doom2 via German IP. And Levels 31 and 32 (those from Wolf3D) are still there.

In the 80s and 90s the judges didn’t consider computer games as art and thus banned swastikas. The problem is, it could be reversed, but somebody would have to have enough money to get through a court process, possibly through multiple instances.
That’s why many games are precensored for German versions. For example in Wolfenstein series they change textures and story elements.

interesting, sounds like a niche censorship

A very big niche. Because Germany is a big market. And this was named as reason to stop development of Indiana Jones 5 (Iron Phoenix?) adventure game, as Nazis would have again be the theme and they feared that they have too invest too much effort to make it saleable in Germany.
Blood was also often a thing to censor in German games. It’s better now. But I think ragdoll effects are still considered bannable material.

You can find some nice examples here: Game Comparisons on Movie-Censorship.com

The site is btw an English version to a German site (schnittberichte.com), which has much more entries, though more for films.

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While in the USA sex, nuditiy and homosexual content is a big thing.

The (voluntary) censorship of blood and violence in Germany was due to the fact that we hadn’t a proper rating system for games. So if the games were too violent they run the risk to be set on “the index”. In that case only adults can buy them and advertisements are not allowed. That means the game wouldn’t sell good anymore. But it could still be purchased. (This is why the German Half Life used green blood instead of red.) Since we now have a working rating system, this isn’t necessary anymore.

But this self-censorship of violence has nothing to do with the Nazi symbols: They are forbidden in Germany. Games showing such symbols could get banned, meaning: they can’t be sold anymore.

Though again they are not forbidden explicitly. It’s forbidden to use the symbols with exception of art. Films are considered being art, thus the Indiana Jones films don’t have any problems. But games weren’t considered art and thus didn’t profit from this exception. Somebody would have to fight at court to get that exception and get a new test case that overthrows the current jurisdictional practice. But nobody has enough guts and money to do this.

Yes, but they could get banned. An example is the (first) Wolfenstein 3D. So no one takes the risk.

And educational purposes. btw: If you make a film that glorifies Nazis, this film can be forbidden too.

Indeed. And I would do the same for games. But I want equality for film and games.
Especially regarding Wolf3D - there was no glorification, they were the ones getting killed. But as it wasn’t considered art, it got banned. And it was banned hard, as it wasn’t just indexed (forbidding advertising, showing and so on but allowing selling to persons > 18) but truly banned, where not only selling, but import and possession are officially illegal.

I think it´s good that as far as violence in media goes we´ve become far more liberal. I have the blu ray of the original Evil Dead that has the blue 16 sticker on it.

I recently watched the basterized TV version of Commando with my dad and had to explain to him that there were still the cuts that were made that could get the film and 18 because it had been indexed for years. Consequently it was even missing some of the best one liners (“I lied”, “I dropped him”, “Let off some steam, Bennet!”). Luckily you can now get the directors cut just about anywhere.

As for the Nazi symbolism as the Spiegel Online article I´ve linked above shows, it may be possible to finally get a change for games too. As far as games go we´re still on the level of Casablanca in the 50s that erased every Nazi references and made it a film about generic spies.

Now the current Wolfenstein games are alternate history stuff. I can maybe accept them changing that because it´s basically scifi. Still I think when you fight Nazis instead of a made up generic regime it just has more weight to it. You know just how bad these bad guys are from history without having to be shown much of anything. So I think it´s just more interesting when they´re Nazis plus I find their symbols because of the association I have with them a lot more intimidating than something that´s just make belief.

However there is currently a new Call Of Duty game out that is specifially about WWII and recreating historic battles. Now how on earth do you a game about WWII with historic pretense without Nazis?!?!

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