I trust you mean that in a good way, not in the cynical, “F*ck You” way of the toilet-paper and in-jokes options… 
-dZ.
Don’t worry, handling self-inflicted disappointment is our main activity.
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“Oh boy, oh boy these Special Editions are going to be GREAT!!!” - Me, almost exactly 20 years ago
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That’s what I thought too.
Also the different reactions in the factory’s laser room when being hit aren’t always consistent, e.g. I especially remember Ray.
Weren’t those more “I give in to the fans instead of stubbornly keeping it the way, I, the designer intended it” ways?
In that particular case it much more seemed like a “I could care less, but sure whatever you want” scenario, as he even mentioned that was done by Mark Ferrari and he had nothing to to with it in the first place.
Well, the “in-jokes” one to me seemed more of a tantrum reaction: “oh, so you think it has too many in-jokes?” OK, here’s a version with none at all! How do you like it now?"
Perhaps it was easier to implement that way, but Mr. Gilbert’s attitude sometimes suggests that he does not suffer such feedback lightly.
Well, I think nobody would be happy to read/receive such feedback. Am I wrong?
Oh sure, I understand that it must not feel nice to have people tell you that your little baby has an ugly wart. But, the response should perhaps be a bit more nuanced. Like this, it feels almost out of spite. Again, I could be completely way off, but that’s the perception I got from that particular change.
What I meant by my comment above was that I hope the changes were positive ones to improve the experience, not changes meant to “appease the unwashed masses.” 
-dZ.
Yeah, OK, that I do take offense with. It’s very naive.
As for the toilet paper and in-jokes, we were just having fun and poking fun at people who objected (yes, we think those people were silly).
I have no doubt that you will hate the changes we’ve made, because they don’t line up to some idea of perfection, or you will just say “I told you so” through some lens of 20/20 hindsight (the most frustrating kind of feedback). Or we will have forgot, or overlooked or decided not to make some small change you noticed.
I’m sure you could have done better dealing with a million moving parts. And yes, I am offended. This is hard work and you run out of time and money and you’re stressed and get no sleep (not just TWP, but any game anyone has ever worked on). This game shipped two months ago, and I still have not taken a vacation or had any time off or stopped working on ports and patches.
I guess I’m disappointed because I had hoped that by taking everyone through the development process for two years, that you would begin to understand that making a game isn’t some idealized process where every decision is crystal clear. Making a game has the same fog of war that… well… war does. Like I said on the blog, there are a 100 things to fix, you have time to fix 90 of them. Not everyone will agree on the 90 to fix. If we had fixed your 1 thing, someone else (maybe even you) would have complained about the other thing I didn’t get to fixed.
Also, not everyone likes the same things. Some things people hate, others love. It’s the danger of making art.
Your “warts” are someone else’s “sexy birthmark”.
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Personally I thought the upside down toilet paper was just one of many tiny indicators how twisted and strange that town is, but maybe that´s just me…
I’m sorry, Mr. Gilbert, I meant no offense. That comment was intended to show empathy, that if someone criticizes your work it is easy to feel disappointed. It happens to all of us. It was meant more as a generalization than as a specific point of criticism.
My apologies if I did not express it well. I admire your work and your candid approach to your fans. That is very rare in a game designer, and it is commendable.
About the toilet paper, I agree. It was a fun “option” to add to the game. I thought it was very funny. About the “in-jokes,” it felt a bit more reactionary. I also had commented in the past that the game had too many in-jokes – not as a way of saying that it was a “bad game,” but to suggest that it was just trying too hard to earn its keep when it didn’t need to.
Removing them completely (as opposed to reducing them), seemed a bit extreme. However, that’s just one man’s opinion, and like I mentioned, it was just my perception.
I think this is getting a bit overblown. I do not have an idea of perfection, and I do not expect it from Thimbleweed Park. Please do not read more into this than was intended.
I understand that you are offended, so I will ignore this as an overreaction. It is clear to all, including me, that you poured your heart and soul into this game and that it was two years of your life committed to the project.
It is understandable that you take criticism personally, this is your work and it took a lot of personal effort and sacrifices. However, none of this was meant to attack you directly.
I completely understand all that, and you should not feel disappointed at all: opening up the development process like you did fulfilled your goals in spades: it let us all get a glimpse at the dirty work of designing a game, and the many trade-offs that have to be made.
All that is precious and I thank you immensely for it.
Again, I entreat you to re-read the comment (or ignore it altogether) without a filter that it was meant to attack you personally or your work. It was a general comment to say that when someone else criticizes your work, it is easy to take offense. This happens to all of us, as your reaction can also attests. 
Bottom line is, I apologize if I worded my comments poorly or in a way that suggested offense to you. I meant no offense or disrespect.
As I have stated in many other threads, I admire your work, your design philosophy, and the passion that you instill in your games. It really affects me to think that I may have offended you, so I sincerely apologize for that.
-dZ.
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It was reactionary. On purpose. We went to be extreme to make a point. If we had not gone to the extreme, we would not have made our point, which is we think it’s silly.
It’s more that you have to internalize criticism. Some of it is valid, some of it just a difference of option, and other times it’s just people being assholes. It’s hard to tell the difference sometimes, both internally and externally. We listen to everything being said and try and filter it in categories. For valid stuff, we try and fix it in patches (when it’s feasible, it all isn’t) for the other two categories, we ignore it.
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Point taken on both counts. I still feel that taking that extreme position to make your point is over-the-top and may have sent the wrong message, but horses for courses. 
Thanks for taking the time to respond again and not dismiss me.
-dZ.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s always nice when people in a community interact in a civil way to clarify their own positions but for comedy purposes I cannot help but thinking that the whole forum experience would be way more fun if we all behaved like apes and threw feces at Ron regardless of what he decides to do with his games.
My two cents.
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I don’t have any expectations for whatever might be added to the game. I’m just grateful that TT and co. are still doing some stuff and I’ll take what comes. There’s no list of expectations for me and anything else from this point on is just gravy. It’s a great game that stands very highly as it already is so any improvements to such a title is gravy.
And that would still be a hundered times more civilized than the majority of internet communites I have seen.
You might not have meant to upset Mr. Gilbert but your comments were certainly on the inflammatory side. This is actually the second time on this forum that I’ve seen you create this kind of conflict with the games’ creator.
In addition, saying “I’m sorry you were offended” is not a real apology. It’s just assigning the blame to the other party.
TWP, and its open development process has been my favorite thing to come around in years, so I feel very defensive about this. Thanks so much Ron!
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The kind of criticism that makes me eye-roll the most is the “I wouldn’t have made that mistake”, or “If you knew what you were doing” kind of comments. Those more born from being naive about what the process to make anything is, and often put me on the defensive.
I often play games where something frustrates me, is buggy, or I completely disagree with the design decision. The first thing I do is ask “I wonder why they made that decision?”. Often I can chock it up to “there just wasn’t enough time”. If I know the dev, I’ll send them a email or DM and ask them, “Why did you do this?”. Nine out of ten times, I’ll get back an answer where I go “Oh, of course.”, or “Yeah, it sucks to run out of time or money.” Or they say “yep, we blew it” and I think “Yep, been there, done that.”
Things are very clear when playing a finished game, they aren’t so clear in the heat of production.
I enjoy explaining why we made the decisions we did. Sometimes it was on purpose, other times we just missed something, or plain fucked up. What I don’t enjoy is explaining that and then getting a bunch of people saying or implying “I wouldn’t have made that mistake”, or “How could you not see that?” It makes me reluctant to explain why we did what we did. I don’t want to be attacked or second guessed for it, even if it was (in retrospect) a bad decision. I don’t think anyone would. I realize people aren’t attacking on purpose, but it’s how it comes across sometimes. When other devs make creative decisions I disagree with, I want to know why they made them, but I don’t argue with them. It is their “art”, not mine.
I guess it’s the difference between doing a post-mortem at a place like GDC, where your peers can empathize with your mistakes and learn from them. I’ve never felt attacked at GDC for talking about a mistake. I get asked a lot of tough questions and am challenged about what I think I could do better next time. But these are coming from people who what to learn, not criticize.
All that said, this is a great community and I do enjoy reading what everyone is thinking. Over the past two years, we’ve become “friends”. I put that in quotes, because, no, you can’t crash on my couch when you’re in town.
The changes we’re making to the game come directly from your feedback. Maybe we didn’t change them as much as you wanted, or maybe we didn’t change the one you wanted, but we do listen and take everything in.
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[quote=“RonGilbert, post:38, topic:650”]
Over the past two years, we’ve become “friends”. [/quote]
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Damnit! And I thought I was this close!