My personal wish for the "Ransome uncensored" update

But as with my example with people who weld, I don’t call all humans welders–just the ones who do welding. If I call the Caponians in the game “alien mindbenders”, it’s in regards to the specific individual aliens involved with the mindbending plot–not the Caponian race as a whole. Or to go with that Klingon example so we can stick with aliens, calling Worf a security officer does not mean I think all Klingons can be called security officers. Just as not all Klingons are security officers, not all Caponians are Alien Mindbenders. Alien Mindbenders are a profession (or class, as you suggested in the other thread)–not an entire alien race.

No, that’s different. Black & Decker is a brand name based on the names of the founders, not a descriptive name like Mindbender is. The Mindbender is called that precisely because that’s what it does, just like a welding machine is called a welder. Sure, The Mindbender is presented as a proper noun, but you can’t tell me its name has nothing to do with its function. The only reason there’s no real-world example is because a similarly descriptive name would quickly enter generic usage and lose trademark protection (in the US, anyway).

Unless you can prove to me that the wiki article was written by a disinterested third party, that proves nothing. I expect that wikipedia articles are maintained by people who have a passion for the topic in question. Someone who loves Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders so much that they wrote a wiki article about it is the FIRST person I’d expect to know the Caponians by name. Now what about people who never played Zak McKracken? How are they supposed to know the aliens were called Caponians? It’s not written on the front of the box or on the back. I had known the exact title of Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders for almost 20 years before I finally got to play the game. In that time, I had never heard the name “Caponian” mentioned once. I guarantee that if you were to do a survey of adventure gamers, you’ll find that the name “Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders” will be much more commonly known than “Caponians” will be. Yes, I know evidence exists that shows the aliens are called Caponians. But I also know that people love to not do the research. It would be silly of me to expect people who never played a game to be familiar with the name of the aliens in it, especially when I have played the game and managed to forget. Around here, using the term “Caponians” makes sense, but for people who only know Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders as that game that’s kind of like Maniac Mansion, calling the aliens Caponians only means that I’ll have to then explain that they’re the ones doing the alien mindbending.

[quote]Anyway feel free to call the Stormtroopers the “Star Wars Empire Soldiers”, I don´t really care.
[/quote]
That’s the opposite scenario. All Stormtroopers are Imperial Soldiers, but not all Imperial Soldiers are Stormtroopers. If I talk about Stormtroopers specifically, that means I’m only talking about the soldiers generally seen in white armor. I would not expect anyone to assume I’m also talking about uniformed officers, or the black-suited pilots or commandos. If the Caponians are the equivalent of the Imperial Army, the Alien Mindbenders would be a group of Stormtroopers within that army.

[quote]Status of Counter of times I already mentioned how tired I am of this discussion: just exploded due to severe overheat…
[/quote]
Next time, don’t use a Galaxy Note 7 as your Counter. The life you save could be your own!

Anyway, to sum up, I agree with the following quote–with a caveat:

DISCLAIMER: I would also expect to see non-Alien Mindbender bios, such as the following made up example:

Name: Groxnar
Race: Caponian
Class: Carnivorous Plant Breeder

I DO NOT agree with the following totally made-up quote:

You seem to have a very roundabout way of actually agreeing with me, but to me it seems you do. I also disagree with the made up quote you disagree with, so why bother?

But the logic of “someone´s opinion who doesn´t know much about the subject he talks about is more important than the one´s who actually does” is beyond me. What is this american healthcare?

I am quite the expert when it comes to roundabout. Anyway, the reason I bothered is because missing information can trigger some serious OCD in me (DISCLAIMER: Not literal, medically-diagnosed Obsessive Compulsive Disorder). Your post in the other thread (and seemingly confirmed by some of your replies to me in this thread) suggested that it was a potentially lively discussion that was bothering you to at least some small degree. So I find myself presented with a mini-mystery: trying to figure out what caused a disagreement that could end like that. Being told that there’s no disagreement that should have existed in the first place only thickens the plot for me. Searching through it all only seemed to reveal some seemingly resolved misunderstandings and some debate on some elements of the English language. That sort of thing didn’t look like it would result in that “one final offer” presented in other thread. That post established two points that seem to have been already agreed upon. One, is that the aliens can be Caponians by origin but Alien Mindbenders by occupation, and two, that the aliens are described as Caponians in-game. The only point of disagreement that I still see any evidence of is that you seem to think it’s inappropriate for people to describe the Caponians in the game as Alien Mindbenders. Perhaps I’m wrong about that, but your statements regarding Klingons and Vulcans seem to suggest otherwise.

If you do feel that it’s inappropriate to refer to the Caponians in the game as Alien Mindbenders, then that sounds like something where the only option is to agree to disagree. However, if you think there’s nothing wrong with the Caponians being referred to by players as Alien Mindbenders as long as it’s being done with the understanding that they’re being described by profession, not by race, then it seems like the entire debate was merely a long string of misunderstandings. But if the impasse was caused by something else, then the only way I can see to make sense of it all is to explicitly state the point that one disagrees with, along with why they disagree with it. That’s actually why I asked what the disagreement was in the first place. If I knew up front what the different points of view were, I might have avoided inflicting at least some of my infamous walls of text upon others.

I was not attempting to establish relative importance among different types of people. I was only trying to explain some reasons why someone might be inclined to use a descriptive, informal term for a group of characters rather than their proper name. At least one of those explanations is of some importance from my own perspective, because I have extreme problems with names and faces when I’m first introduced to them. With rare exceptions, names require quite a bit of effort for me to remember them. Following a verbal or written plot synopsis is very difficult for me, and I lose track of characters almost immediately.

This is merely annoying with fiction, but can be a very embarrassing problem when it comes to stories involving actual people I’m not familiar with. And like I said, it’s not just with names. On several occasions, I embarrassed myself at work when I used to work retail, because I’d forget what the customer I was helping looked like, and ended up approaching the wrong person when I returned with a response to their query. Because of this, I always worry about not providing enough detail to make a story easy to follow, so I try to make sure it’s still possible to be able to tell people/characters apart without knowing their names–except in conversations where it can reasonably be assumed that a person would know.

Ultimately, I guess my persistence here is a side effect of the same dedication that gets me through adventure games. :grin:

1 Like

Huh? I always assumed it stood for “Zak McKracken and those who bend the minds of aliens”… :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Plan x from Outer Space!

(with x being in the [1…8] range)

Oi! Don’t contradict me, boy! Who are you anyway, and what would you know on the subject? :wink:

Also: wow, this thread got seriously off-topic. Feels like a conversation in a bar/pub. Perhaps we should rename this forum “The Thimbleweed Bar”?

The only threads in this forum that stay on topic are the ones in the “Off topic” section.

4 Likes

Obviously one of the previous 8 failed plans, yes. Of course Graverobbery has to be the next step…

“Never argue with a group of italians” is the lesson I took from it.

I would find scumm bar much more apt…

Hahah, yeah, remarkable how many of the “verbally active” members here appear to be Italian… I would have expected more Germans. Then again, perhaps there are, but they just don’t mention it as often?

My poll counted 9, but I only activly see two (me included).

Must be a case of “if we run around a lot and make enough noise, we can fool them into thinking they’re surrounded” then! :wink:

Thought I spotted at least a third though. But I’m also reading through older threads if they seem interesting, and I don’t really pay attention to the dates, so perhaps they stopped posting in the meantime.

There was a german thread at the very beginning but that quickly died out. I don´t mind that really, I like how this is as an international thing where it doesn´t matter where anyone comes from, instead of everyone being in their own corner speaking their own language.

3 Likes

I wonder who the other German is. But maybe it’s just Someone…

1 Like

The joke I passed on went something like “I know there is someone else but I can´t think of his name right now”-

1 Like

I’m surprised there aren’t more Finns involved in these conversations. At least that I know of. After all, Finns are very talkative people.

Oh, and Alien Mindbenders: I have always thought that it just means any extraterrestrials that/who bend minds. So I think it would be an action thing. It could refer just to the machine, but that is not telling the whole story, as the machine won’t do anything by itself. It needs an operator. And anyone who operates a mindbending machine (the Mindbender) is in fact a Mindbender.

Sorry if I’m just repeating what someone has already said. I went through this thread quite quickly.

+people from finland, denmark, sweden and norway are for some reason super awesome at english.

So kiitos, suomi!

1 Like

Here is one:

4 Likes

These are the moments I wish for a dislike button.:grimacing:

There is one. It’s flag-shaped.

Right, like I wanna lose my respect/trust for flagging random stuff like terrible puns.

More Finn?

4 Likes

That was to be expected :stuck_out_tongue: Italians are WAY more talkative than Germans.

You know, we’re just suffering we cannot make hand gestures in a forum
handgesture

2 Likes