That would take away all the satisfaction of realizing that there’s a suspicious waterfall, or that the monkey’s fixated on the metronome so you have to mess with the metronome. I think this is simply an argument in favor of a modern hint system like in TWP, so you can have your cake and eat it too. Some people have the fun of noticing the suspicious waterfall, those who don’t can call HINT[1] and be told the waterfall might be suspicious. My minor niggle with the hint system in TWP is that I had usually already grasped all the basic clues and was simply having trouble making the game understand that I understood, so that I had to go all the way to the final hint that spelled out the exact solution. I felt there might’ve been an appropriate slightly more subtle pre-final hint. But I only used it a few times so I can’t really judge it on the whole.
@Nor_Treblig What exactly did the game say if you look at the monkey? I feel like it already said he’s frozen stiff/rock solid/something like that. But agreed, I feel it wouldn’t detract to make the hint verbal as well as visual.
No, not per se: The comments would be given only if you did something “wrong”. So the game would point you out of the dead end. For example if you realize that there’s a suspicious waterfall and that the pump is connected to the waterfall, you wouldn’t explicitly look at the objects (because you know already what to do). If you look at thinks you are doing this to get hints.
But I would agree that:
Look at pump: “Hmm. Seems to control the flow of the waterfall.”
That would run completely counter to my play style. I don’t look at the pump because I don’t realize it’s related to the waterfall, but because I want to hear Guybrush say it reminds him of the time someone opened a pump and it sprayed water all over his face, and by the way that was totally not a story about him.
Look at pump: “What is this doing in a pirate game?”
Look at Jojo: “He´s cute.”
The problem is that it’s just a pun, that’s all.
It would only work with a lot of cartoon logic since you can never get a living, stuffed or dead (rigor mortis) body to function as a monkey wrench.
Yes. He could say something like “I can’t turn it with my bare hands.” like @ThunderPeel2001 suggested., or something like “I need a tool or handle to control it.”.
But for me the pump was never a problem, it’s clear that it shoud be used, what ever happens then was speculative but didn’t really matter.
I think that doesn’t make much sense for just look. Remember, we have open/close. For look he should say it’s a limited series PumpTron™ 3000 or whatever, imho. And like I said, totally not Guybrush has had prior experience with a PumpTron™ 3000.
Unfortunately you only get standard responses (“It doesn´t seem to open.”, “I can´t move it.” etc.) and Use requires another object which also won’t help unless you use Jojo.
The first time I “solved” this puzzle by brute-forcing it. The second time I played the game I got stuck there again, and again I used all inventory items until it worked. But from then on I remembered this puzzle
Right, so for open/close it would make sense to say “I can’t open/close this pump with my bare hands” as opposed to a standard boilerplate response that you’d also get on… I don’t know, a cup or something that can’t be opened/closed at all.
I just don’t think look is the place to give much in the way of hints, at least within the overall context of how Monkey Island works. Those standard boilerplates are kind of the bane of the traditional MI interface anyway. Luckily there’s also a fair amount of funnier customized ones iirc, or am I thinking of a different game?
In a game with a different design philosophy than MI 1/2, “look” might well be an established way of providing some hints rather than providing humor. I just don’t think of MI2 as that game. Except in the subtlest sense, like the “he’s as stiff as a wrench” example you gave above. That’s just duplicating the visuals, deciphering them if you didn’t get it of course but it’s more hint-adjacent than a hint.
I agree, looking should not really give hints, except maybe pointing something out which is hard to decipher with just the art or regarding inventory items something which was known/visible before picking up but then can be easily forgotten.
I wouldn’t say that’s subtle
But it’s the easiest way to fix or help with this puzzle. It’s hard to hint this one in subtle ways I think.
To me that’s a much more interesting puzzle , so that would be a significant giveaway…
the monkey wrench puzzle is actually two puzzles: 1) to understand that the pump can activate the waterfall; 2) to understand how to operate the pump.
To me, the interesting puzzle is the first one, by far.
(Also, when you have a puzzle where you need to understand both the “what” and the “how”, be sure that 99% people will solve it by brute forcing. Not a good idea to have two puzzles in one puzzle.)
wait a second… if the monkey is fixated on the metronome, why isn’t this by itself enough to hypnotize her? I though the point of sticking the banana is exactly to have her look at the metronome (so as to hypnotize her).
Definitely not, but to me neither is the visual. But I should also emphasize like. I didn’t want to get distracted by discussing the red herring of how subtle your specific proposal is or isn’t.
Maybe I’m misremembering, but to me it makes sense that there’s a difference between being focused on it and being focused on it. On the one hand you focus on the general aspect of the metronome to follow the rhythm, and on the other hand you focus on the metronome going left & right because there’s an interesting banana on it. And in cartoon logic the latter hypnotizes you.
In some sense, yes… But taking the monkey and using the monkey are actually implemented as different puzzles. I mean: they two separate actions to perform. Instead, using the monkey by itself is one action, but two puzzles.
In other words: to use the monkey on the pump, you need to have two “aha moments”, not one.
I know what you mean, but I’d say that 1 and 2 are the same . And that I don’t really need to have #4 . a-ha moment #4 is only needed for the other puzzle. …
Since I am translating MI2 anyway, I’ll fix the English version!
Instead of “he’s cute”, Guybrush will now say “he’s a tool”.
And instead of “he’s too much into his playing to notice”, he’ll say “boy, that monkey surely is wrenching that piano! (Wink wink)”
Instead of “no thanks, bad memories of my piano lessons”… “That needle is too dangerous, I’d risk sticking my finger on it while it moves like that… or my banana”
And instead of the “what is this thing and what is it doing there”, he’ll say “There is a small inscription: Valve. Mmm, I thought I was in a DRM-free game. Better find a way to turn it off. I am a mighty pirate after all.” (Face camera and smile)
Never tried it on easy, by the way. Perhaps all these dreaded puzzles are removed there?
I like how we moved the topic from “the puzzle only works because it’s a pun in English” to an analysis of the preconditions to that puzzle.
I still find the “getting the monkey” part very logical. Again, we don’t have a reason except for “you’re an a**hole and love tampering with things and might as well steal a monkey just as you did with a dog”.
