WARNING: dangerous topic (politics!)

[ZakPhoenixMcKracken]

@Gffp

have the trial be less long than it is

In Ace Attorney, trials last 3 days at max. We should learn from videogames!

[uriel]

@ZakPhoenixMcKracken

OK, but how many citizens really want to get rid of weapons?
If their were more than just a vague ambition, if they were absolutely determined to ban the weapons… there’s no way the lobbies could prevent them.

Yes I agree, if the majority wants that then it would eventually happen (democracy is still hanging). But the country is really split on that matter. I’m an outsider here in the US and I still can’t get around how beeping obsess are with guns.

Have you seen this? You can laugh and cry at the same time, it’s OK:

Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles hold commitment ceremony

[Frenzie]

@Gffp

Every other menomation the other people represented by the State produce on that person, is not allowed, and MUST be not allowed.

Incidentally, CDA was advocating more and longer prison sentences, which we know does not work. The VVD had a similar issue.

Wilders’ election program literally fit on an A4. It was preposterous.

@Gffp

Can we please have some statistics about sexual crimes in Belgium in the past years? With context analysis?

There was this awful joke when I was in elementary school.

What’s English for “I love the truth”?

“I love the truth.”

Haha, you said “I love Dutroux!”

(No… not really. In full-on Dutch pronunciation that’s something closer to “I luf de troof”… but that aside. Also I could already say th like in the back then, just not like in breathe.)

[ZakPhoenixMcKracken]

@Frenzie

“I love …”

Man, I had removed that horrible story.
I was told that story through the TV news, I was a child back then. I was scared to death.

[ZakPhoenixMcKracken]

@uriel

Have you seen this? You can laugh and cry at the same time, it’s OK:

To me, it’s inconceivable.

[seguso]

@Sushi

It’s not describing what current politicians do. It’s how you would improve on things.

I would be better at lying to the EU about the deficit!

[kaiman]

@uriel

And congress is run by lobbyist.

If I were in the position, I’d love to reduce the influence of lobbyists on politics. For a start, I’d mandate absolute transparency when it comes to dealings with lobbyists. Make meeting transcripts and all communication open for public scrutiny.

Other things on my agenda:

• fairer distribution of wealth. Higher taxes on property (Germany abandoned its property tax altogether in 1997) and speculation, and decreased income and consumption taxes.
• a re-evaluation of crimes and their respective punishment. It seems you’re better off murdering someone than “stealing” somebodies “intellectual property” (on which they do not even pay taxes).
• reducing the scope and duration of patents, trademarks and copyrights.

Unfortunately, I guess even if the leader of any one country would even remotely try to work on some of those issues, as long as there are plenty of countries with better terms for corporations and the rich, the attempt would likely backfire. Honestly, I don’t think we’ll get corruption and inequality under control until we have a single world government. The EU is a pretty good start, in my book, even with all its flaws.

[kaiman]

@Gffp

I’m always very astonished on how we have become unaware of basic principles of law and human rights.
The only thing that a State can do in most European states is to take the freedom of a person to live in the society, and put him/her in a penitentiary to teach him/her where he/she made a mistake.

I would fully concur, were it not for

@Sushi

I can’t shake the feeling that really evil people are exploiting the righteousness (naivety?) of the others.

Though I also think that what you have been suggesting is leading us down a really slippery slope.

@Sushi

In practice they’re just way too many examples of offenders that get out because of full prisons

Definitely an issue. I guess the problem is that people get criminalized and thrown in jail for petty things at times, while retributions for severe offences aren’t severe enough.

[Ema]

@Sushi

And chemical castration for sexual offenders. That one is perhaps the easier of both to implement.

Ok, i just read this, then I’ve read the PERFECT reply of @Gffp. Sorry, I couldn’t go on reading the debate about this. It isn’t worthy, in my opinion.

I mean: if we have to discuss politics, please let’s do that seriously. I don’t think any political leader would claim chemical castration seriously. They wouldn’t, if not to get votes from the sliming crowd. Maybe I’m too optimistic and naive, but I think such a law couldn’t pass in any country which has a strong tradition based on roman law and all its evolution.

After all, a prime minister can’t simply “make laws”. Luckily.

But, if the sense of Zak’s game is “you are a half-god who can decide laws and what is wrong and what is right, with no need of a congress to approve your ideas”, well… why not to dream big?

Why should I merely dream gruesome punishments for sex offenders when I can dream a society in which nobody is a sex offender? Why not starting with the basis? Changing culture, changing people’s mind? For too many people, in too many cultures, abusing women is simply normal. And even in western societies, there’s a lot of men who have a distorted idea of women, and they are not sex offenders only because they fear the consequences. But I don’t want this! I don’t want to have a society of frustrated potential offenders!

An exemplary punishment has an immediate, but ephemeral effect. So it’s perfect if you need votes.

But if you need to make a better world, you’ll need something more profound. Something that doesn’t show immediately its effect, but that can change things forever.

Probably we won’t benefit of this, but we must do it. Now. If we want at least our children (or maybe the children of our children) benefit from this.

Probably in one generation we can improve things about the condition of women.
We’ll need two or generations to change the trend in matter of pollution (if it isn’t too late)
We’ll need more to change things about radicalism, fascism, violence in general.

We all need to back to school. And it has to be a good shool. Because it seems obvious to me that that the school we all attended was badly, badly lacking.

Ok, time to play.

If I were the half-god who could decide Italy’s fate…

1. I would disband the actual congress.
2. I would make an electoral law that grants STABILITY, like in any normal country
3. I would teach politics and civics at school. Really. And, in general, I’d invest a lot on our bad educational system.
4. I would invest a lot in the fight of tax evasion
5. I would make laws and formation about the fact that any person IS responsible of what they say, and not only of what they do. As I wrote somewhere, people must realize that “freedom of speech” doesn’t mean “freedom of offending”. I am very glad that somebody, in these days, is heavily learning the lesson, after writing on the net some shameful things about the President of the Italian Republic.

[Frenzie]

@Ema

As I wrote somewhere, people must realize that “freedom of speech” doesn’t mean “freedom of offending”.

It doesn’t mean the right to insult or to slander, but freedom of speech does mean the right to offend. It doesn’t mean the right to say whatever you want free from consequences, but anything you say can be taken as offensive by someone.

[ZakPhoenixMcKracken]

@Ema

As I wrote somewhere, people must realize that “freedom of speech” doesn’t mean “freedom of offending”. I am very glad that somebody, in these days, is heavily learning the lesson, after writing on the net some shameful things about the President of the Italian Republic.

I must give you an applause for this statement.

[tasse-tee]

@Ema

I would make an electoral law that grants STABILITY, like in any normal country

Stability in which areas? How might this stability be ensured?
(My Italian colleague has just given me an update on the current political situation in Italy )

[ZakPhoenixMcKracken]

@tasse-tee

My Italian colleague has just given me an update on the current political situation in Italy

Actual situation in a nutshell (it looks like a soap opera):

Day 1

• Salvini & Di Maio: “We are ready do make the government!”
• President: “No, I don’t like HIM as Ministry of Economic Affairs!”
• Salvini: “But I want HIM!”
• President: “I said no.”
• Salvini: “I said YES!”
• President: “NO!”
• Salvini: “I’m really angry.”
• President: “Since there is no government from you, I’ll make one.”
• Di Maio: “Let’s impeach the President for high treason!”
• Salvini: “Let’s vote again!”

Day 2

• President: “Cottarelli, create a new government.”
• Cottarelli: “I’m almost ready.”
• Salvini & Di Maio: “We never vote such a government!”
• Berlusconi: “neither do I”
• Democratic Party: “We’ll vote it.”
  (three hours later…)
• Democratic Party: “We won’t vote it!”
• Salvini & Di Maio: “Let’s vote again! Oh, the date is July 29th…”
• Di Maio: “It’s during summer, maybe we must reconsider this…”
• Salvini: “Let’s vote anyway!”

Day 3

• Di Maio: “Mr. President, may I propose you a solution? We can move HIM in another Ministry. Would you like my idea?”
• President: “But… the impea…”
• Di Maio: “Oh, that is all water under the bridge. Can we try to make our government again?”
• Cottarelli: “Mr. President, I’m ready!”
• President: “Please stand by.”
• Cottarelli:
• Salvini: “I don’t like your idea, Di Maio, but I don’t close the door.”

Day 4 (today)

We are waiting for news.

[tasse-tee]

@ZakPhoenixMcKracken

President: “But… the impea…”
Di Maio: “Oh, that is all water under the bridge. Can we try to make our government again?”

I don’t suppose Di Maio gave a proper apology, did he? In my view, he’s lucky that the President is still willing to have discussions with him.

@ZakPhoenixMcKracken

“Let’s vote again!”

I’ve never understood this general concept. How likely is it, really, that political parties will make big changes to their original manifestoes? Or that the general public will vote in a very different way to the first time?

[ZakPhoenixMcKracken]

@tasse-tee

I’ve never understood this general concept. How likely is it, really, that political parties will make big changes to their original manifestoes? Or that the general public will vote in a very different way to the first time?

Every day each party makes polls. And depending on the results, they make their public statements.
Currently, Salvini (Lega) consent is increasing constantly.

[ZakPhoenixMcKracken]

@tasse-tee

I don’t suppose Di Maio gave a proper apology, did he?

We don’t know, there is no public statement about this, but we suppose he did.

[kaiman]

@Ema

Probably in one generation we can improve things about the condition of women.
We’ll need two or generations to change the trend in matter of pollution (if it isn’t too late)
We’ll need more to change things about radicalism, fascism, violence in general.

Very worthy goals, and in case of #2 absolutely essential if we want to retain the chance for realizing #3 (by means other than becoming extinct).

@Ema

I would make laws and formation about the fact that any person IS responsible of what they say, and not only of what they do. As I wrote somewhere, people must realize that “freedom of speech” doesn’t mean “freedom of offending”.

By and large I agree. Words can do serious harm. Though I am sometimes under the impression that people are extremely thin-skinned these days. I also have the vague fear that this might eventually be extended to what people think, given technology provides the means.

[kaiman]

If we’re talking about politics (and how to make the world a better place), here’s some food for thought:

[tasse-tee]

Any Day 4 news to report, @ZakPhoenixMcKracken?

[ZakPhoenixMcKracken]

@tasse-tee

Any Day 4 news to report,

• Salvini & Di Maio have found an agreement.
• Cottarelli: “thank you Mr. President, I give up”
• President: “is HIM in the Ministry for Economic Affairs?”
• Salvini & Di Maio: “No, Mr. President!”
• President: “Good.”

Now there should be the oath within minutes!